5 ms·

This purchase certainly makes one wonder what Apple is up to. Kinnect has been, for the most part, a party-game interface, and that's not really in Apple's bail

by beloch 13y ago

This purchase certainly makes one wonder what Apple is up to. Kinnect has been, for the most part, a party-game interface, and that's not really in Apple's bailiwick. Capri is not really small enough or appropriate for phones, since you tend to gesture with your phone rather than at it. It is small enough that it could be included in laptops and tablets though. There are obvious gimmicks Apple is likely to go for, like gesturing at your laptop to make it unlock or summoning Siri with a dance move. It might also be a decent couch-interface for Apple TV, if Apple hasn't completely given up on that yet. Here's hoping Apple has something interesting under wraps to put Primesense to work on and isn't just filling up their patent war-chest.

RBerenguel 13y ago
I'd bet for the missing bigfoot, the Apple TV set (iTV or whatever they name it)
coldtea 13y ago
>Capri is not really small enough or appropriate for phones, since you tend to gesture with your phone rather than at it. How about gesturing with your iWatch? Just sayin'
vidarh 13y ago
> you tend to gesture with your phone rather than at it Samsung at least have been trying to change that: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/howtoguide/N0000003/10141/120552 http://www.samsung.com/us/support/howtoguide/N0000003/10141/... Not that I've ever seen anyone do it.
- eonil 13y ago
  Samsung never been succeeded anything else than copying something.
  - Alterlife 13y ago
    If you copy something, and the copy is better than the original in some way, is the copy still a copy? When do you get to call it innovation?
    - bane 13y ago
      When it's packaged and sold as an Apple product.
    - eonil 13y ago
      Did you buy the Galaxy Camera? That was the real first product that they can say something original. Unfortunately, nobody supported them. How about Galaxy Watch? It was the second, and also nobody helped. Have you checked out Bada SDK? Have you used KIES manager? Or, what's your point? Are you telling me that they really have something better? So they're not a copy? In which way? Do you mean the Android which comes from Google? Because Android is just an assembly? Are you talking about [AMOLED](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8I5oMxbO9Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz8I5oMxbO9Q http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8I5oMxbO9Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatc...). Or are you talking about TouchWiz widgets? Which looks so similar to iOS, even Google warned them to stop copying. Or Wacom tablet in Galaxy Note series? I know some people want it for Wacom tablet. Is it also Samsung's innovation just like Android which is also a Samsung's innovation? It's irony that the word "Android" is actually a legally registered exclusive trademark owned by Samsung in Korea. Any other companies can't sell a phone named "Android" in Korea. So maybe you're right. That's very innovative strategy. But personally, I don't think real innovators won't do such crap. Please tell me only one thing they really made better rather than copying other one. Not just larger and more. Because you won't call adding one more wheel to a Toyota truck as an innovation. I am not talking they're not trying. They sometimes try, and any trial for original product horribly fails. Isn't it true? They really suck at original or innovation. But for copying? Oh they're supernatural. They're doing it over decades, and even has been supported from government for that. It's simply because you can't derive originality or innovation by copying others. If you ever have tried to make something new, or better, you should know that you must break existing one first. Copied but better? That's impossible doesn't make sense at all.
      - 13y ago
dave_sullivan 13y ago
Maybe they're going to rework the Apple TV to target the market the wii was going after with iPhone/iPad game campatability on your tv? That is almost not a bad idea actually... Almost.
- nnnnni 13y ago
  Based on things that I've heard from certain people, it looks like Apple is definitely going to join the console game market....
  - revscat 13y ago
    If this comes to fruition I just hope they get the controller right: it's of tantamount importance. Gesture based recognition for games is not something that makes up for a relaxing experience.
  - mhurron 13y ago
    They tried once before, I wonder if they've learned anything. Or is this like Apple is definitely going to make a smart tv?
criley2 13y ago
"Here's hoping Apple has something interesting under wraps to put Primesense to work on and isn't just filling up their patent war-chest." In almost all of the lawsuits I've seen, the patents used by Apple were filed by Apple (and most had Steve Jobs name on them). Outside of the Nortel stuff, it doesn't seem like Apple is big about acquiring businesses for their patents. Are there notable examples of Apple weaponizing patents that way? I thought that was more the hallmark of Apple's competitors, rushing to put together a defense...
6ren 13y ago
Looks small enough http://www.primesense.com/solutions/3d-sensor/ http://www.primesense.com/solutions/3d-sensor/ (see "embedded" photo at bottom). Apple can probably help miniaturize it further; also process shrinks. New input devices open new possibilities. Just vaguing: 3D sculpting; with the device propped up, any surface is a keyboard; 3D photographs. Ideally, couple it with a holographic display... EDIT mobile applications "augmented reality gaming, virtual shopping, Real View™ measurements, 3D scanning and printing, photography enhancement" (http://www.primesense.com/market/mobile/ http://www.primesense.com/market/mobile/), engadget article (http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/primesense-demonstrates-capri-3d-sensor/ http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/primesense-demonstrates-c...)
TeMPOraL 13y ago
Remember the "Structure Sensor" on Kickstarter from just about a month ago[0]? That's basically a repackaged Kinect. Some commenter here on HN expressed his thought that 'this kind of sensor is something that will be definitely integrated with future smartphones, like normal camera'. Kinect is not only about gestures. It's also a cheap 3D scanner. [0] - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure-sensor-capture-the-world-in-3d http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure-sens...
kabdib 13y ago
Some things to note: Laser diodes (which produce the structured light used by the PS technology) need to operate at a specific temperature so they hit a specific frequency of light. You do this so that you can hit a frequency window for the IR filter in front of your camera. The trade-off here is to use a wider filter, but this increases the system's susceptibility to noise and outside light (windows with sun shining through them are a big problem). There is a longish delay for the laser diode to hit that frequency (that's what Kinect is doing when it's starting up; the firmware and all is ready to go in a few hundred milliseconds, but the LD needs tens of seconds to get to operating temp). It's not an instant-on device unless you can process data that has low fidelity. In addition to dumping power into a heater, you also need a cooler (a mere heat sink won't be reactive enough). More power. I really worry about battery life in a hand-held device. (I don't remember how much power laser diodes draw, but the one in the Kinect draws over 60mw). Microsoft has a metric buttload of patents in this area, both purchased and from in-house R&D. I really wonder what Apple thinks it bought.
ChuckMcM 13y ago
Apple TV + Kinect equals 60" iPad in your living room.
Angostura 13y ago
The application which makes most sense to me would be gesture controls for some kind of Apple TV device. Choosing menus in the living room, swiping between channels etc might do away with a conventional remote, perhaps.
phreanix 13y ago
I've been pondering on this lately. Apple certainly has set the bar with smartphones and tablets, making them practically indispensable. What next? I don't have much expertise in OS's, but it seems to me that that IOS would be the perfect OS for smart machines. It's already optimized for mobile, wifi, cellular data, lightweight (relatively), and most of all, has a rich and vast developer community. Home Appliances that run on iOS would be a logical step, don't you think? In that case, this purchase would make sense. They could also be developing gaming units as expansion modules for AppleTV?

by beloch 13y ago

RBerenguel 13y ago

I'd bet for the missing bigfoot, the Apple TV set (iTV or whatever they name it)

coldtea 13y ago

>Capri is not really small enough or appropriate for phones, since you tend to gesture with your phone rather than at it. How about gesturing with your iWatch? Just sayin'

vidarh 13y ago

> you tend to gesture with your phone rather than at it Samsung at least have been trying to change that: http://www.samsung.com/us/support/howtoguide/N0000003/10141/120552 http://www.samsung.com/us/support/howtoguide/N0000003/10141/... Not that I've ever seen anyone do it.

eonil 13y ago
Samsung never been succeeded anything else than copying something.
- Alterlife 13y ago
  If you copy something, and the copy is better than the original in some way, is the copy still a copy? When do you get to call it innovation?
  - bane 13y ago
    When it's packaged and sold as an Apple product.
  - eonil 13y ago
    Did you buy the Galaxy Camera? That was the real first product that they can say something original. Unfortunately, nobody supported them. How about Galaxy Watch? It was the second, and also nobody helped. Have you checked out Bada SDK? Have you used KIES manager? Or, what's your point? Are you telling me that they really have something better? So they're not a copy? In which way? Do you mean the Android which comes from Google? Because Android is just an assembly? Are you talking about [AMOLED](http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8I5oMxbO9Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dz8I5oMxbO9Q http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z8I5oMxbO9Q&desktop_uri=%2Fwatc...). Or are you talking about TouchWiz widgets? Which looks so similar to iOS, even Google warned them to stop copying. Or Wacom tablet in Galaxy Note series? I know some people want it for Wacom tablet. Is it also Samsung's innovation just like Android which is also a Samsung's innovation? It's irony that the word "Android" is actually a legally registered exclusive trademark owned by Samsung in Korea. Any other companies can't sell a phone named "Android" in Korea. So maybe you're right. That's very innovative strategy. But personally, I don't think real innovators won't do such crap. Please tell me only one thing they really made better rather than copying other one. Not just larger and more. Because you won't call adding one more wheel to a Toyota truck as an innovation. I am not talking they're not trying. They sometimes try, and any trial for original product horribly fails. Isn't it true? They really suck at original or innovation. But for copying? Oh they're supernatural. They're doing it over decades, and even has been supported from government for that. It's simply because you can't derive originality or innovation by copying others. If you ever have tried to make something new, or better, you should know that you must break existing one first. Copied but better? That's impossible doesn't make sense at all.
    - 13y ago

dave_sullivan 13y ago

Maybe they're going to rework the Apple TV to target the market the wii was going after with iPhone/iPad game campatability on your tv? That is almost not a bad idea actually... Almost.

nnnnni 13y ago
Based on things that I've heard from certain people, it looks like Apple is definitely going to join the console game market....
- revscat 13y ago
  If this comes to fruition I just hope they get the controller right: it's of tantamount importance. Gesture based recognition for games is not something that makes up for a relaxing experience.
- mhurron 13y ago
  They tried once before, I wonder if they've learned anything. Or is this like Apple is definitely going to make a smart tv?

criley2 13y ago

"Here's hoping Apple has something interesting under wraps to put Primesense to work on and isn't just filling up their patent war-chest." In almost all of the lawsuits I've seen, the patents used by Apple were filed by Apple (and most had Steve Jobs name on them). Outside of the Nortel stuff, it doesn't seem like Apple is big about acquiring businesses for their patents. Are there notable examples of Apple weaponizing patents that way? I thought that was more the hallmark of Apple's competitors, rushing to put together a defense...

6ren 13y ago

Looks small enough http://www.primesense.com/solutions/3d-sensor/ http://www.primesense.com/solutions/3d-sensor/ (see "embedded" photo at bottom). Apple can probably help miniaturize it further; also process shrinks. New input devices open new possibilities. Just vaguing: 3D sculpting; with the device propped up, any surface is a keyboard; 3D photographs. Ideally, couple it with a holographic display... EDIT mobile applications "augmented reality gaming, virtual shopping, Real View™ measurements, 3D scanning and printing, photography enhancement" (http://www.primesense.com/market/mobile/ http://www.primesense.com/market/mobile/), engadget article (http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/primesense-demonstrates-capri-3d-sensor/ http://www.engadget.com/2013/05/15/primesense-demonstrates-c...)

TeMPOraL 13y ago

Remember the "Structure Sensor" on Kickstarter from just about a month ago[0]? That's basically a repackaged Kinect. Some commenter here on HN expressed his thought that 'this kind of sensor is something that will be definitely integrated with future smartphones, like normal camera'. Kinect is not only about gestures. It's also a cheap 3D scanner. [0] - http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure-sensor-capture-the-world-in-3d http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/occipital/structure-sens...

kabdib 13y ago

Some things to note: Laser diodes (which produce the structured light used by the PS technology) need to operate at a specific temperature so they hit a specific frequency of light. You do this so that you can hit a frequency window for the IR filter in front of your camera. The trade-off here is to use a wider filter, but this increases the system's susceptibility to noise and outside light (windows with sun shining through them are a big problem). There is a longish delay for the laser diode to hit that frequency (that's what Kinect is doing when it's starting up; the firmware and all is ready to go in a few hundred milliseconds, but the LD needs tens of seconds to get to operating temp). It's not an instant-on device unless you can process data that has low fidelity. In addition to dumping power into a heater, you also need a cooler (a mere heat sink won't be reactive enough). More power. I really worry about battery life in a hand-held device. (I don't remember how much power laser diodes draw, but the one in the Kinect draws over 60mw). Microsoft has a metric buttload of patents in this area, both purchased and from in-house R&D. I really wonder what Apple thinks it bought.

ChuckMcM 13y ago

Apple TV + Kinect equals 60" iPad in your living room.

Angostura 13y ago

The application which makes most sense to me would be gesture controls for some kind of Apple TV device. Choosing menus in the living room, swiping between channels etc might do away with a conventional remote, perhaps.

phreanix 13y ago

I've been pondering on this lately. Apple certainly has set the bar with smartphones and tablets, making them practically indispensable. What next? I don't have much expertise in OS's, but it seems to me that that IOS would be the perfect OS for smart machines. It's already optimized for mobile, wifi, cellular data, lightweight (relatively), and most of all, has a rich and vast developer community. Home Appliances that run on iOS would be a logical step, don't you think? In that case, this purchase would make sense. They could also be developing gaming units as expansion modules for AppleTV?