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It's political correctness. Nigger in particularly has had a nice and storied discussion on how arbitrary it's acceptability is. You think you're not being a d

It's political correctness. Nigger in particularly has had a nice and storied discussion on how arbitrary it's acceptability is. You think you're not being a dick, but your sensitivity is blinding you. I've called my friends things far worse than what nigger objectively means, but the social constructs around it are so bizarre as to make it taboo, but only taboo in my context. Just like sex is taboo. Just like drugs are taboo. Just like homosexuality was taboo (and remains taboo in some areas). Further, there's an aspect to 4chan you're not seeing, and it's how much they hate and punish the kind of narcissism you accuse them of. A net good. I've seen openly homosexual people posting on 4chan about their lifestyles with absolutely no condemnation. It is not an exception to a rule. You have mischaracterized this demographic. Badly.

SwellJoe 13y ago
4chan, like any diverse online community, has a lot of awesome people using it. And, yet, 4chan spawned this: http://jezebel.com/what-happens-when-a-13-year-old-4chan-cam-girl-grows-up-1443144696 http://jezebel.com/what-happens-when-a-13-year-old-4chan-cam... And, this: http://www.dailydot.com/society/adria-richards-4chan-raid-sendgrid-donglegate/ http://www.dailydot.com/society/adria-richards-4chan-raid-se... And, this: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-internet-why-you-cant-have-anything-nice http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-inte... I'm speaking of the culture of the place. Every individual user has the ability to not participate in some of the really awful shit that goes down...but, groupthink and a culture that celebrates the worst of it ("none of us are as cruel as all of us"), leads to some truly awful behavior. And, it is so often white males targeting women (and, worse, young girls). People with privilege are rarely aware of their privilege, and 4chan is a great exhibition of that. It's possibly useful as a tool for seeing just how much people don't see how awful their community can be, and how much oppressive behavior is tolerated and celebrated. We've got thousands of years of oppression to undo. I'm calling it out, not because I'm "sensitive", but because I've had some of this shit explained to me...I've had my own oppressive behavior called out to me. And, now that I see it, and have begun to understand it, it's my job as a white male ally in a centuries-old struggle to call it out when I see it. It's not white knighting, and it's not sensitivity. 4chan isn't hurting my feelings or making me mad. 4chan is just doing what white men have done throughout history: Enjoying their position of privilege to make fun of those with less power. And, I recognize it for what it is because I've done it, too. The only surprising thing about it is how much most 4channers think they aren't acting like every prior generation of white men in the face of being asked to treat women and people of color like equals. They genuinely believe they are a different breed, above race, and gender, and identity; all the while promoting the same old shit.
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  >And, it is so often white males targeting women (and, worse, young girls). since when? since they make good headlines? Most people who get ousted are narcissistic 16 year old's. They just arn't sympathetic to a news reel, and almost always the instigating factor for 4chan going to town on someone is narcissism. Adria and Anita being two fantastic examples of such. My sympathies to Allie though. Definitely not a smart life choice posting pictures of yourself for 4chan's amusement, shame such a choice can be made before you're old enough to make it.
  - SwellJoe 13y ago
    "since when?" You've been to 4chan before, right? I just took at look. I could point to a half dozen deeply disturbing threads happening as we speak. They are conversations being held predominantly by young white males about even younger girls, some of whom have had their real identity revealed by the creepy stalking that 4chan is so well known for. "Most people who get ousted are narcissistic 16 year old's." So, all 16 year olds, then. Every teenager is self-involved. Their brain isn't finished yet. That's no excuse for a bunch of grown men to wage war on them. "Adria and Anita being two fantastic examples of such." So, you believe what happened in those cases was a sane, rational, and fair response to someone saying something that 4channers disagreed with? You call them "narcissists", one because she wanted to make some videos about sexism in video games and she asked some people to voluntarily give her a few bucks to do it, and the other because she thought it was inappropriate to make stupid dick jokes at a conference attended by women and young girls. See, here's the thing...you could convince me that Adria Richards could have handled that situation with more subtlety. But, the response of 4chan? You believe that was justified? I honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around that kind of mindset. And, Anita literally did nothing to anyone. She wanted to make some videos. Don't like the concept of videos about sexism in video games? Don't contribute, don't watch them. That's what I did, and the videos never bothered me one bit because I never saw them (didn't need to, as I already knew video games were sexist as hell). Huh. How hard was that? In what world is it OK to wage war on someone for expressing their opinion? In that world, anonymous forums become the only place one can express an opinion without fear, because their are vigilante gangs standing at the ready to try to destroy you at the first sign that they might disagree with you. That it's considered justified by so many within that community because of, I guess, how strongly someone disagrees with the opinions being stated, is disturbing. If 4chan only went after people with power, I would cheer them on. Politicians? Hell, yeah, go for it. Tom Cruise? Fuck, yeah. Bankers? Why not? Abusive cops? I'm OK with that too. But, they often don't. They go after easy targets; they're often bullies (while absurdly wearing the badge of "standing up for the little guy"). One of the easiest targets is young girls, and 4channers go after young girls daily.
codygman 13y ago
Man, I just love hearing that word. Thought maybe I wouldn't on HN... but guess I was wrong. Also... if you think you've called your friends worse than what the n-word means and symbolizes, you clearly don't know much about the history of it. You're really trying to say "Nier is just a taboo."?
- GhotiFish 13y ago
  honestly. It's not worth discussing here. This is a discussion that can only functionally be carried out when names can be tied to faces, because people are so self righteous about it. I don't want to be targeted. Sorry.

SwellJoe 13y ago

4chan, like any diverse online community, has a lot of awesome people using it. And, yet, 4chan spawned this: http://jezebel.com/what-happens-when-a-13-year-old-4chan-cam-girl-grows-up-1443144696 http://jezebel.com/what-happens-when-a-13-year-old-4chan-cam... And, this: http://www.dailydot.com/society/adria-richards-4chan-raid-sendgrid-donglegate/ http://www.dailydot.com/society/adria-richards-4chan-raid-se... And, this: http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-internet-why-you-cant-have-anything-nice http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/internet/2012/06/dear-inte... I'm speaking of the culture of the place. Every individual user has the ability to not participate in some of the really awful shit that goes down...but, groupthink and a culture that celebrates the worst of it ("none of us are as cruel as all of us"), leads to some truly awful behavior. And, it is so often white males targeting women (and, worse, young girls). People with privilege are rarely aware of their privilege, and 4chan is a great exhibition of that. It's possibly useful as a tool for seeing just how much people don't see how awful their community can be, and how much oppressive behavior is tolerated and celebrated. We've got thousands of years of oppression to undo. I'm calling it out, not because I'm "sensitive", but because I've had some of this shit explained to me...I've had my own oppressive behavior called out to me. And, now that I see it, and have begun to understand it, it's my job as a white male ally in a centuries-old struggle to call it out when I see it. It's not white knighting, and it's not sensitivity. 4chan isn't hurting my feelings or making me mad. 4chan is just doing what white men have done throughout history: Enjoying their position of privilege to make fun of those with less power. And, I recognize it for what it is because I've done it, too. The only surprising thing about it is how much most 4channers think they aren't acting like every prior generation of white men in the face of being asked to treat women and people of color like equals. They genuinely believe they are a different breed, above race, and gender, and identity; all the while promoting the same old shit.

GhotiFish 13y ago
>And, it is so often white males targeting women (and, worse, young girls). since when? since they make good headlines? Most people who get ousted are narcissistic 16 year old's. They just arn't sympathetic to a news reel, and almost always the instigating factor for 4chan going to town on someone is narcissism. Adria and Anita being two fantastic examples of such. My sympathies to Allie though. Definitely not a smart life choice posting pictures of yourself for 4chan's amusement, shame such a choice can be made before you're old enough to make it.
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  "since when?" You've been to 4chan before, right? I just took at look. I could point to a half dozen deeply disturbing threads happening as we speak. They are conversations being held predominantly by young white males about even younger girls, some of whom have had their real identity revealed by the creepy stalking that 4chan is so well known for. "Most people who get ousted are narcissistic 16 year old's." So, all 16 year olds, then. Every teenager is self-involved. Their brain isn't finished yet. That's no excuse for a bunch of grown men to wage war on them. "Adria and Anita being two fantastic examples of such." So, you believe what happened in those cases was a sane, rational, and fair response to someone saying something that 4channers disagreed with? You call them "narcissists", one because she wanted to make some videos about sexism in video games and she asked some people to voluntarily give her a few bucks to do it, and the other because she thought it was inappropriate to make stupid dick jokes at a conference attended by women and young girls. See, here's the thing...you could convince me that Adria Richards could have handled that situation with more subtlety. But, the response of 4chan? You believe that was justified? I honestly have a hard time wrapping my head around that kind of mindset. And, Anita literally did nothing to anyone. She wanted to make some videos. Don't like the concept of videos about sexism in video games? Don't contribute, don't watch them. That's what I did, and the videos never bothered me one bit because I never saw them (didn't need to, as I already knew video games were sexist as hell). Huh. How hard was that? In what world is it OK to wage war on someone for expressing their opinion? In that world, anonymous forums become the only place one can express an opinion without fear, because their are vigilante gangs standing at the ready to try to destroy you at the first sign that they might disagree with you. That it's considered justified by so many within that community because of, I guess, how strongly someone disagrees with the opinions being stated, is disturbing. If 4chan only went after people with power, I would cheer them on. Politicians? Hell, yeah, go for it. Tom Cruise? Fuck, yeah. Bankers? Why not? Abusive cops? I'm OK with that too. But, they often don't. They go after easy targets; they're often bullies (while absurdly wearing the badge of "standing up for the little guy"). One of the easiest targets is young girls, and 4channers go after young girls daily.

codygman 13y ago

Man, I just love hearing that word. Thought maybe I wouldn't on HN... but guess I was wrong. Also... if you think you've called your friends worse than what the n-word means and symbolizes, you clearly don't know much about the history of it. You're really trying to say "Nier is just a taboo."?

GhotiFish 13y ago
honestly. It's not worth discussing here. This is a discussion that can only functionally be carried out when names can be tied to faces, because people are so self righteous about it. I don't want to be targeted. Sorry.