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Obviously only pg can decide for sure and to be honest I personally wouldn’t have submitted this. That said... There are events in this world that permeate th

Obviously only pg can decide for sure and to be honest I personally wouldn’t have submitted this. That said... There are events in this world that permeate the public consciousness. They are so big that they make all other topics seem irrelevant. Michael Jackson, whose prime was before my birth by the way, is the Icon of icons. His exit from the world is a once in a life time event that affects everyone. I choose to make Hacker news my community of choice because it’s a community that holds rationality above all else. It is not rational to stick to strict rules no matter what. The corner stone of a community is shared experience and an event that has a profound effect on almost everyone should surely justify a rare exception to the "Tech only" rule. So, if we assume it is rational to occasionally put the rules aside, the question becomes "is this event big enough to justify such an exception?" As has been pointed out several times here this story is the lead on every news based web site in existence. It’s being covered on every news station and even radio stations built around aloofness (JackFM) have dedicated commercial free hours to play only Michael Jackson music. To me that signals an event that justifies a rational exception to the rules.

lucumo 17y ago
> the question becomes "is this event big enough to justify such an exception?" If that's the question, what's the added value of putting it here as well. If it's already big enough to justify an exception, it's big enough to be mentioned everywhere. Surely the question should be: "Will the discussion on HN be interesting?" Since the discussion is mostly meta-commentary, I'm inclined to say it isn't.
- FooBarWidget 17y ago
  I think the comments on HackerNews are still a whole lot more interesting than the average YouTube/Facebook/Myspace-style "OMG lolololol!!1111"-type comments that one would find on most other websites.
icey 17y ago
That's about as good an explanation as I think anyone could give. Thank you for shedding some light on it. Seriously.
- andrewljohnson 17y ago
  I upvoted you for upvoting him, even though I'll get downvoted for saying this. It's a testament to the worth of Hacker News that after literally an entire day of the vocal community calling an MJ article on HN blasphemy, the truth rings out with 100 karma.
scott_s 17y ago
I agree with this reasoning. I'm just surprised at the event that gets the exception.
aquateen 17y ago
Michael Jackson was a celebrity has-been who made mediocre music. His death truly affects few, let alone profoundly. The fact it's covered on every news station indicates it's probably not news and reason enough not to include here.
- jonny_noog 17y ago
  His death truly affects few, let alone profoundly. I'm not an MJ fan and I never will be, but your comment is just overly myopic. I know people who were impacted profoundly by his music and no doubt when I next see them, I will find out that his death has also affected them profoundly. Just because I personally am not affected in the slighest does not mean that I cannot understand why others will be.
  - aquateen 17y ago
    That's funny, because myopic is exactly how I would describe the attention this is getting. I guess it depends on your definition of "profound." I know people who are profoundly affected in the same sense when their fantasy football team loses.
    - jonny_noog 17y ago
      Sounds like my definition of "profound" may contain a lower amount of pretentiousness than yours. People are moved by many and varied things in this world. Often it's not necessarily the importance or the profundity of the thing its self (in this case Michael Jackson's music) but the associations that the individual connects to that thing. You mock how someone could be affected by such things as their fantasy football team and by implication, Michael Jackson's music. I only see this as an indication that you have very little insight into the inner workings of your own mind or that of anyone else's.
      - aquateen 17y ago
        Nope, I hate when my FF team loses. But I recognize it doesn't really matter and I think most people will have only a superficial feeling of loss. The commenter above called this a "once in a lifetime event" that "has a profound impact on almost everyone." I don't think so, but maybe I'm too pretentious or lack insight. Thanks for that.
davidmathers 17y ago
There can be only 1 best selling album of all time. And that album is Thriller by Michael Jackson.
- unwind 17y ago
  Uh ... Except at each point in time, there can be a different best selling album. It's not as if it's now a universal constant, that can never change, is it? On the other hand, with the concept of "album" feeling slightly old-school, perhaps that makes it less probably that the king is ever dethroned, who knows.
  - davidmathers 17y ago
    It's not as if it's now a universal constant, that can never change, is it? I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that it will never change. ..just checked the best selling albums list: Best seller of 90s: 42 million copies Best seller of 00s: 24 million copies Thriller: 100+ million copies
    - jollojou 17y ago
      What is your source?
      - davidmathers 17y ago
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_wor...
  - xsmasher 17y ago
    I doubt his record will ever be dethroned, partly due to changes in the musical landscape. There's been a great divergence in musical tastes since the 80's, probably aided by the increased availability of "niche" music that would have had too small an audience to be profitable in the past - dollars that would have gone to the #1 album are now being spread down "the long tail." Michael Jackson's popularity also seemed to cut across racial lines and some age lines in a way that doesn't happen anymore. Can you imagine the same audience listening to Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg? Tren Reznor's fans listening to Miley Cyrus? Jackson had a genre-crossing power.
justlearning 17y ago
One of the best comments in HN about HN-Eligibility. May I add by saying that everytime there is a question of HN-Eligibility (every other day!),we should hot-link it here to this post by TomOfTTB. Better yet add it to the FAQ!
Leon 17y ago
I hacker is, by definition, lazy in the smart meaning. A good hacker knows when you don't have to repeat work, and what is going on here? More discussion of the same thing; empty vagaries on the life of a strange man. This conversion of what MJ has left behind as a legacy and his life experiences is discussed elsewhere. For that matter it is being discussed /everywhere/. We've all heard all about this subject, is it necessary to discuss a topic that can't be brought meaning through technical discussions or rational discourse?
ananthrk 17y ago
it’s a community that holds rationality above all else. It is not rational to stick to strict rules no matter what Wow! Well said. And as others suggested, its worth providing a link to this from the FAQ.
biohacker42 17y ago
There are events in this world that permeate the public consciousness. No there are some events for which Mass Media swarms like piranhas. It's some sort of demonic combination of cheap to cover and lowest common denominator. The result is a absolutely horrifying. It's death gawking. Since yesterday the MSM has been all about this admittedly tragic event. And not just the TV, the radio too. My alarm in the morning is the radio news summary. Except today with all that's going on the world, all that's happening with Iran, the ENTIRE news block was about this. The reporters were throwing to each other each reporting some detail of the death, with the last sentence being: "Preliminary autopsy results are expected as early as tonight!" How fucked up is that? And the radio during my morning commute, yep wall to wall coverage. Michael Jackson's tragic death makes all other topics seem irrelevant? WTF! As you yourself say, this is thoroughly covered in every other media outlet. This is not a signal to gawk at this tragedy here as well. This is sad, but it is NOT important. And it certainly isn't in need of extra attention. This: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/keeping-your-anonymity-iran/1147-freegate.html http://iran.whyweprotest.net/keeping-your-anonymity-iran/114... On the other hand IS important and hacker related.
- jackowayed 17y ago
  Do you listen to NPR? They do a great job of not getting caught up on celebrity stories. http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=3&prgDate=06-26-2009&view=storyview http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=3&#3... That's Morning Edition's rundown today/yesterday/the morning after his death. In 2 hours (more? not sure how long Morning Edition is, but it's long), they had 4 stories, totaling under 15 minutes. And that's probably double what they've had about any celebrity in 1 show this year.
jamesbritt 17y ago
"Michael Jackson, whose prime was before my birth by the way, is the Icon of icons. His exit from the world is a once in a life time event that affects everyone." His prime was during my lifetime, and while I respect what he did, his passing makes zero difference in my life. As best I can tell, he reached and passed his peak. (Not that his not-quite-peak stuff wasn't or wouldn't have been good, but it could not match the effect of Thriller) His death is sad, as are most deaths, but hardly earth-shattering, and certainly not "once in a lifetime", given that people such Elvis, MLK, and JFK died during my lifetime as well. Maybe it's our age difference.
- xsmasher 17y ago
  Age difference. A child born the day that Elvis died would be 31 today. John Lennon was shot when they were three years old. For them, "The King" is a golden oldie, not pop music. They can't imagine that he was ever controversial, or even relevant.

lucumo 17y ago

> the question becomes "is this event big enough to justify such an exception?" If that's the question, what's the added value of putting it here as well. If it's already big enough to justify an exception, it's big enough to be mentioned everywhere. Surely the question should be: "Will the discussion on HN be interesting?" Since the discussion is mostly meta-commentary, I'm inclined to say it isn't.

FooBarWidget 17y ago
I think the comments on HackerNews are still a whole lot more interesting than the average YouTube/Facebook/Myspace-style "OMG lolololol!!1111"-type comments that one would find on most other websites.

icey 17y ago

That's about as good an explanation as I think anyone could give. Thank you for shedding some light on it. Seriously.

andrewljohnson 17y ago
I upvoted you for upvoting him, even though I'll get downvoted for saying this. It's a testament to the worth of Hacker News that after literally an entire day of the vocal community calling an MJ article on HN blasphemy, the truth rings out with 100 karma.

scott_s 17y ago

I agree with this reasoning. I'm just surprised at the event that gets the exception.

aquateen 17y ago

Michael Jackson was a celebrity has-been who made mediocre music. His death truly affects few, let alone profoundly. The fact it's covered on every news station indicates it's probably not news and reason enough not to include here.

jonny_noog 17y ago
His death truly affects few, let alone profoundly. I'm not an MJ fan and I never will be, but your comment is just overly myopic. I know people who were impacted profoundly by his music and no doubt when I next see them, I will find out that his death has also affected them profoundly. Just because I personally am not affected in the slighest does not mean that I cannot understand why others will be.
- aquateen 17y ago
  That's funny, because myopic is exactly how I would describe the attention this is getting. I guess it depends on your definition of "profound." I know people who are profoundly affected in the same sense when their fantasy football team loses.
  - jonny_noog 17y ago
    Sounds like my definition of "profound" may contain a lower amount of pretentiousness than yours. People are moved by many and varied things in this world. Often it's not necessarily the importance or the profundity of the thing its self (in this case Michael Jackson's music) but the associations that the individual connects to that thing. You mock how someone could be affected by such things as their fantasy football team and by implication, Michael Jackson's music. I only see this as an indication that you have very little insight into the inner workings of your own mind or that of anyone else's.
    - aquateen 17y ago
      Nope, I hate when my FF team loses. But I recognize it doesn't really matter and I think most people will have only a superficial feeling of loss. The commenter above called this a "once in a lifetime event" that "has a profound impact on almost everyone." I don't think so, but maybe I'm too pretentious or lack insight. Thanks for that.

davidmathers 17y ago

There can be only 1 best selling album of all time. And that album is Thriller by Michael Jackson.

unwind 17y ago
Uh ... Except at each point in time, there can be a different best selling album. It's not as if it's now a universal constant, that can never change, is it? On the other hand, with the concept of "album" feeling slightly old-school, perhaps that makes it less probably that the king is ever dethroned, who knows.
- davidmathers 17y ago
  It's not as if it's now a universal constant, that can never change, is it? I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that it will never change. ..just checked the best selling albums list: Best seller of 90s: 42 million copies Best seller of 00s: 24 million copies Thriller: 100+ million copies
  - jollojou 17y ago
    What is your source?
    - davidmathers 17y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_wor...
- xsmasher 17y ago
  I doubt his record will ever be dethroned, partly due to changes in the musical landscape. There's been a great divergence in musical tastes since the 80's, probably aided by the increased availability of "niche" music that would have had too small an audience to be profitable in the past - dollars that would have gone to the #1 album are now being spread down "the long tail." Michael Jackson's popularity also seemed to cut across racial lines and some age lines in a way that doesn't happen anymore. Can you imagine the same audience listening to Mariah Carey and Snoop Dogg? Tren Reznor's fans listening to Miley Cyrus? Jackson had a genre-crossing power.

justlearning 17y ago

One of the best comments in HN about HN-Eligibility. May I add by saying that everytime there is a question of HN-Eligibility (every other day!),we should hot-link it here to this post by TomOfTTB. Better yet add it to the FAQ!

Leon 17y ago

I hacker is, by definition, lazy in the smart meaning. A good hacker knows when you don't have to repeat work, and what is going on here? More discussion of the same thing; empty vagaries on the life of a strange man. This conversion of what MJ has left behind as a legacy and his life experiences is discussed elsewhere. For that matter it is being discussed /everywhere/. We've all heard all about this subject, is it necessary to discuss a topic that can't be brought meaning through technical discussions or rational discourse?

ananthrk 17y ago

it’s a community that holds rationality above all else. It is not rational to stick to strict rules no matter what Wow! Well said. And as others suggested, its worth providing a link to this from the FAQ.

biohacker42 17y ago

There are events in this world that permeate the public consciousness. No there are some events for which Mass Media swarms like piranhas. It's some sort of demonic combination of cheap to cover and lowest common denominator. The result is a absolutely horrifying. It's death gawking. Since yesterday the MSM has been all about this admittedly tragic event. And not just the TV, the radio too. My alarm in the morning is the radio news summary. Except today with all that's going on the world, all that's happening with Iran, the ENTIRE news block was about this. The reporters were throwing to each other each reporting some detail of the death, with the last sentence being: "Preliminary autopsy results are expected as early as tonight!" How fucked up is that? And the radio during my morning commute, yep wall to wall coverage. Michael Jackson's tragic death makes all other topics seem irrelevant? WTF! As you yourself say, this is thoroughly covered in every other media outlet. This is not a signal to gawk at this tragedy here as well. This is sad, but it is NOT important. And it certainly isn't in need of extra attention. This: http://iran.whyweprotest.net/keeping-your-anonymity-iran/1147-freegate.html http://iran.whyweprotest.net/keeping-your-anonymity-iran/114... On the other hand IS important and hacker related.

jackowayed 17y ago
Do you listen to NPR? They do a great job of not getting caught up on celebrity stories. http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=3&prgDate=06-26-2009&view=storyview http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=3&#3... That's Morning Edition's rundown today/yesterday/the morning after his death. In 2 hours (more? not sure how long Morning Edition is, but it's long), they had 4 stories, totaling under 15 minutes. And that's probably double what they've had about any celebrity in 1 show this year.

jamesbritt 17y ago

"Michael Jackson, whose prime was before my birth by the way, is the Icon of icons. His exit from the world is a once in a life time event that affects everyone." His prime was during my lifetime, and while I respect what he did, his passing makes zero difference in my life. As best I can tell, he reached and passed his peak. (Not that his not-quite-peak stuff wasn't or wouldn't have been good, but it could not match the effect of Thriller) His death is sad, as are most deaths, but hardly earth-shattering, and certainly not "once in a lifetime", given that people such Elvis, MLK, and JFK died during my lifetime as well. Maybe it's our age difference.

xsmasher 17y ago
Age difference. A child born the day that Elvis died would be 31 today. John Lennon was shot when they were three years old. For them, "The King" is a golden oldie, not pop music. They can't imagine that he was ever controversial, or even relevant.