5 ms·

I don't want to sound like a douche, but... I call bullshit! "[...] master’s degree in sociology" - I really wanted to stop reading after this line. There's a h

by Yuuyake 13y ago

I don't want to sound like a douche, but... I call bullshit! "[...] master’s degree in sociology" - I really wanted to stop reading after this line. There's a handful of jobs that require only sociological skill and in most cases they don't pay that much. Anyone who doesn't know that should blame only themselves, not the system or the employers. Go google "what can a sociology major do". Even Berkley's (which I find to be a decent school at least) sociology dept's website clearly states that sociology is only an addition to some other skills. Not sure about other countries but in my homeland sociology studies are piss easy and that's why they are so popular. People just want to have it all with zero effort. To the really small % of people who study it because they truly love it: 1) you either have to be the best at it in that case 2) if you're not, then get a different job. Not everyone can make a living doing what they love the most. I love gaming but I doubt I could ever get to the point where I'd be able to make a living from it. No jobs for people with a nursing degree, what?? All over Europe there's a shortage of nurses! I'd love to read the whole story of that person. What she tried, what she did, where did she apply etc. It's a hard job, that's why there are shortages, but if you decided to go into a nursing school I'd guess you know that. No one will hire you only because you have a degree, geez don't people know that? Nowadays everyone can get a degree! Btw. why didn't they mention in the article any university names? Anyway even if you, somehow, graduate from a distinguished uni but did nothing extra, or did not find what you really want to to then again you should only blame yourself. As a European who did an exchange in France I met many Italians and Spanish during my life. They were usually quite hard working, focused and new what they want from life. And according to them they were the exceptions. Apparently the majority people from those countries recently prefer to party than work hard. Young people seriously should stop acting like princesses and princes, taking things for granted just because they are special and instead try to do something by themselves.

apsec112 13y ago
"Anyone who doesn't know that should blame only themselves, not the system or the employers." Since these kids were literally wearing diapers, every single authority in their lives has told them: Go to college. Go to college and you will get a good job. Go to college and you will have made it. Go to college and you won't flip burgers. Go to college and you are a success. "In the 21st century, one of the best anti-poverty programs is a world-class education." - Barack Obama, State of the Union 2010 "Does The College Major Matter? Not Really" - New York Times editorial (http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/does-the-college-major-matter-not-really/ http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/does-the-colle...) "Your College Major Is a Minor Issue, Employers Say" - Wall Street Journal Careers (http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/10/your-college-major-is-a-minor-issue-employers-say/ http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/10/your-college-major-is...) (etc, etc, etc, you can go on forever) It is the height of audacity to lie to a child, literally every day, for literally twenty years, and then blame them for not being cynical enough to realize it.
- Yuuyake 13y ago
  People will lie to you, that's how people are. It's your parents'/family's role to guide you. Furthermore, as I took the article it's even the bright and "oh so special" younglings that cannot find a job. If they are so smart they should realise that something is wrong. If you believe everything you're being told without thinking about it and/or making some research of your own then it's, again, your own fault.
  - FLUX-YOU 13y ago
    The goalposts were clearly moved in a big and sudden way. Parental wisdom became worthless at worst and uncertain at least because no one knew what the economy was going to do (least of all parents that weren't economically aware). They continued with the same advice while the landscape changed drastically. Even if high school graduates did their own research, they would've still needed to be able to predict the outcome of an world economy after a huge shake-up -- how is someone fresh out of high school supposed to do that? I mean, I agree that a Sociology degree isn't known for 6 figures, but before things went tits up, it would've likely gotten you a decent office job somewhere -- certainly you're capable of more than bagging groceries and stocking shelves. A Master's used to convey a certain amount of willingness to work, learn, and accomplish something. It was a certain amount of mold-able competency that transformed depending on what position you were given. Now it suddenly isn't worth as much. It would've been another thing entirely if this was a slow shift, which would give society, businesses, and students time to adjust. Now that general usefulness is trash and you're better off partying to network. The next generation will be able to research what happened, and they'll get more cautious advice, but that wisdom came at a pretty high price.
    - Yuuyake 13y ago
      By parental advice I didn't mean "do what I did/what was the proper thing to do when I was your age" but "do some research, check what is in demand now, what do other people do, how it will all affect the future". I'm 26 now, when I entered high school 10 years ago the whole sociology/political science/economy etc. boom started (at least in the part of Europe I was living in). Call me special but the fact that it was too popular made me think twice before entering a high school class profiled for that kind of studies (yes, we have profiles in HS in my country). Also the fact that more and more people got accepted to universities made me realise that I either have to go to a lousy uni and work really hard on my own to be able to land a decent job or go to a top uni in the country (after entering one I realised that even with such a degree I need to find something I'm good at and do something in that direction, no one else will help me and only the degree won't mean that much). Yes the system isn't without blame for talking crap, but let's be honest. The people in charge always were full of BS and that won't change. Ah also, again, I didn't notice which unis those people graduated from. I'm pretty sure that a sociology degree from a top uni still holds some value.
thelettere 13y ago
If only life were that simple. I've been trying for the last 15 years to find a balance between what is practical and what doesn't make me want to kill myself, and I have yet to find a solution. My last degree I decided to err on the side of "practical" and got a degree in higher ed counseling - a broad and growing field with tons of opportunity. It was the closest thing to my interests that had practical application. I had some misgivings, but didn't see any other "practical" alternative. So instead of going the sociology-type princess route, I went where the jobs were. During my internship I hated the job so much I began getting insomnia and a variety of other persistent ailments. After graduating I was so burned out I could barely do anything for 3 months. Now I work as a barista making the same exact money I made prior to starting college 7 years ago. Sometimes the choice is between something that makes you sick and something that has no "practical" application. Sometimes what you are most passionate about is not what is valued by your culture. I'd think about that next time I judged someone who decided not to follow the crowd towards a lucrative or middle-class values type of job.
- Yuuyake 13y ago
  As I said, if you want to do what you love, then go for it. But please don't whine and cry that no one wants to pay you for it if it's a skill that's not highly valued by the industry. As I said in society sometimes you need to clench you teeth and do what has to be done. Then in your spare time you can do what you love. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in a world where everyone could do what they truly love but taking into account human nature I highly doubt such an utopia is possible.
- eshvk 13y ago
  > I'd think about that next time I judged someone who decided not to follow the crowd towards a lucrative or middle-class values type of job. Kind of ironical that you are inherently judging those who hold lucrative jobs as crowd followers or inherently having "middle-class values". One could argue that following the crowd can also be defined as being a poorly paid barista who is doing "art" on the side. There is nothing inherently different from say programming as a day job or working as a barista as a day job and spending your nights doing something creative. Not all who go into this shit are following the crowd or have "middle class" values.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
bowlofpetunias 13y ago
This, plus they should count themselves lucky they live in Europe where they are free to move to places like Amsterdam, get a decent job with a decent salary, healthcare, social security, 20+ vacation days and everything. All of that a very affordable flight away from home.
- skrebbel 13y ago
  €1200 in Amsterdam is not a decent salary.
  - bowlofpetunias 13y ago
    Amsterdam <> the tiny expensive inner city. Besides housing and stuff like restaurants in that small area, cost of living in Amsterdam is about the same as anywhere else in NL. Plus lots of students == lots of cheap options. Amsterdam is not London.

by Yuuyake 13y ago

apsec112 13y ago

"Anyone who doesn't know that should blame only themselves, not the system or the employers." Since these kids were literally wearing diapers, every single authority in their lives has told them: Go to college. Go to college and you will get a good job. Go to college and you will have made it. Go to college and you won't flip burgers. Go to college and you are a success. "In the 21st century, one of the best anti-poverty programs is a world-class education." - Barack Obama, State of the Union 2010 "Does The College Major Matter? Not Really" - New York Times editorial (http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/does-the-college-major-matter-not-really/ http://thechoice.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/29/does-the-colle...) "Your College Major Is a Minor Issue, Employers Say" - Wall Street Journal Careers (http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/10/your-college-major-is-a-minor-issue-employers-say/ http://blogs.wsj.com/atwork/2013/04/10/your-college-major-is...) (etc, etc, etc, you can go on forever) It is the height of audacity to lie to a child, literally every day, for literally twenty years, and then blame them for not being cynical enough to realize it.

Yuuyake 13y ago
People will lie to you, that's how people are. It's your parents'/family's role to guide you. Furthermore, as I took the article it's even the bright and "oh so special" younglings that cannot find a job. If they are so smart they should realise that something is wrong. If you believe everything you're being told without thinking about it and/or making some research of your own then it's, again, your own fault.
- FLUX-YOU 13y ago
  The goalposts were clearly moved in a big and sudden way. Parental wisdom became worthless at worst and uncertain at least because no one knew what the economy was going to do (least of all parents that weren't economically aware). They continued with the same advice while the landscape changed drastically. Even if high school graduates did their own research, they would've still needed to be able to predict the outcome of an world economy after a huge shake-up -- how is someone fresh out of high school supposed to do that? I mean, I agree that a Sociology degree isn't known for 6 figures, but before things went tits up, it would've likely gotten you a decent office job somewhere -- certainly you're capable of more than bagging groceries and stocking shelves. A Master's used to convey a certain amount of willingness to work, learn, and accomplish something. It was a certain amount of mold-able competency that transformed depending on what position you were given. Now it suddenly isn't worth as much. It would've been another thing entirely if this was a slow shift, which would give society, businesses, and students time to adjust. Now that general usefulness is trash and you're better off partying to network. The next generation will be able to research what happened, and they'll get more cautious advice, but that wisdom came at a pretty high price.
  - Yuuyake 13y ago
    By parental advice I didn't mean "do what I did/what was the proper thing to do when I was your age" but "do some research, check what is in demand now, what do other people do, how it will all affect the future". I'm 26 now, when I entered high school 10 years ago the whole sociology/political science/economy etc. boom started (at least in the part of Europe I was living in). Call me special but the fact that it was too popular made me think twice before entering a high school class profiled for that kind of studies (yes, we have profiles in HS in my country). Also the fact that more and more people got accepted to universities made me realise that I either have to go to a lousy uni and work really hard on my own to be able to land a decent job or go to a top uni in the country (after entering one I realised that even with such a degree I need to find something I'm good at and do something in that direction, no one else will help me and only the degree won't mean that much). Yes the system isn't without blame for talking crap, but let's be honest. The people in charge always were full of BS and that won't change. Ah also, again, I didn't notice which unis those people graduated from. I'm pretty sure that a sociology degree from a top uni still holds some value.

thelettere 13y ago

If only life were that simple. I've been trying for the last 15 years to find a balance between what is practical and what doesn't make me want to kill myself, and I have yet to find a solution. My last degree I decided to err on the side of "practical" and got a degree in higher ed counseling - a broad and growing field with tons of opportunity. It was the closest thing to my interests that had practical application. I had some misgivings, but didn't see any other "practical" alternative. So instead of going the sociology-type princess route, I went where the jobs were. During my internship I hated the job so much I began getting insomnia and a variety of other persistent ailments. After graduating I was so burned out I could barely do anything for 3 months. Now I work as a barista making the same exact money I made prior to starting college 7 years ago. Sometimes the choice is between something that makes you sick and something that has no "practical" application. Sometimes what you are most passionate about is not what is valued by your culture. I'd think about that next time I judged someone who decided not to follow the crowd towards a lucrative or middle-class values type of job.

Yuuyake 13y ago
As I said, if you want to do what you love, then go for it. But please don't whine and cry that no one wants to pay you for it if it's a skill that's not highly valued by the industry. As I said in society sometimes you need to clench you teeth and do what has to be done. Then in your spare time you can do what you love. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in a world where everyone could do what they truly love but taking into account human nature I highly doubt such an utopia is possible.
eshvk 13y ago
> I'd think about that next time I judged someone who decided not to follow the crowd towards a lucrative or middle-class values type of job. Kind of ironical that you are inherently judging those who hold lucrative jobs as crowd followers or inherently having "middle-class values". One could argue that following the crowd can also be defined as being a poorly paid barista who is doing "art" on the side. There is nothing inherently different from say programming as a day job or working as a barista as a day job and spending your nights doing something creative. Not all who go into this shit are following the crowd or have "middle class" values.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

bowlofpetunias 13y ago

This, plus they should count themselves lucky they live in Europe where they are free to move to places like Amsterdam, get a decent job with a decent salary, healthcare, social security, 20+ vacation days and everything. All of that a very affordable flight away from home.

skrebbel 13y ago
€1200 in Amsterdam is not a decent salary.
- bowlofpetunias 13y ago
  Amsterdam <> the tiny expensive inner city. Besides housing and stuff like restaurants in that small area, cost of living in Amsterdam is about the same as anywhere else in NL. Plus lots of students == lots of cheap options. Amsterdam is not London.