6 ms·

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the oth

by cmccabe 13y ago

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

lostlogin 13y ago
My country of birth, New Zealand, has plenty of dark secrets of its own. It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely? There are plenty of countries that are worse than the US and there are also a fair few who are better. However there aren't any countries who have a bigger international profile everywhere I have ever been. Its a pity this isn't used to create more good.
- saraid216 13y ago
  > It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely? Here in the US, we strive to bring partisan politics into every discussion.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    Violent nationalism isn't particularly partisan.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      Actually, it is. I mean "partisan" as in "parted into parties" which is the same as "us versus them" rather than more jargony "national political parties inside America".
    - moocowduckquack 13y ago
      It is usually extremely partisan. It is fairly rare for an entire country to be violently nationalisic, even if the ruling party is. Also, as saraid points out, it is by definition being partisan, just internationally rather than internally.
jevinskie 13y ago
I didn't down vote you but I will disagree with you. Criticizing the US does not mean that you support/can't criticize other countries.
cbaker 13y ago
Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government. If you're unhappy with that, maybe you'd like to move to North Korea, China, or any of those other countries where people like you are allowed to shut down critical thinking.
- fleitz 13y ago
  Didn't Snowden have to flee to China and then Russia so he could criticize his government with out fear of summary execution?
  - joyeuse6701 13y ago
    Criticism of government has it's limits. Snowden is questionable because what he said was not public knowledge and had crippling negative effects towards security of the state, but say, expressing your criticism of government by blowing up a federal building...
    - fleitz 13y ago
      Similarly to how China would react to someone talking about Tianamen Square which isn't public knowledge but knowledge of it would cause a massive shit storm that would undermine the security of the state. It's not what happened, it's the idea of one man standing up to the state that strikes fear into their hearts.
      - enko 13y ago
        I would wager that almost every educated person in China knows exactly what happened at Tiananmen Square. Certainly every chinese person I've ever really gotten to know knew all about it. The politics around it is complicated, but there is an acceptance of sorts that there's some items the government does not want dwelled upon, and that's one of them. Don't underestimate Chinese political sophistication, especially amongst what we might call the middle class (a <10% minority in China). There is a common feeling, if not outright belief, that a strong government is necessary to hold the country together, especially during its current transition period with its massive inequalities. I am no expert but my impression is that the people who do know - the middle class educated, with internet access (firewalls are trivial to get around) understand or at least play along with the idea that from a stability point of view, some information is best not fully shared. I see some interesting parallels between Chinese political censorship and the debate about the NSA revelations, by the way. Both are about concealing information of great public interest in the name of some alleged greater good. The only real difference is that the events in Tianenmen Square happened outdoors.
phaus 13y ago
The phenomenon where people like you act as if anyone with something critical to say about the United States lacks patriotism is the very thing that is destroying our nation. I'm a moderate conservative and a Soldier, but your "love it or leave it" attitude is sickening to me. Its ruining our country, so please stop. Sure many countries are horrible places to live compared to the United States, but if we ignore our problems as you would have us do, that might not always be the case. Our founding fathers knew from the very start that government is but a necessary evil. One that requires constant monitoring and modification in order to keep the power in the hands of the American people, which is where it belongs. Patriotism is about loving one's country, not worshipping the government. I don't agree with every criticism of the United States that appeared in this thread, but I do agree with some of them.
Zigurd 13y ago
Are you for real?

by cmccabe 13y ago

lostlogin 13y ago

My country of birth, New Zealand, has plenty of dark secrets of its own. It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely? There are plenty of countries that are worse than the US and there are also a fair few who are better. However there aren't any countries who have a bigger international profile everywhere I have ever been. Its a pity this isn't used to create more good.

saraid216 13y ago
> It's not as simple as being with us or against us though, surely? Here in the US, we strive to bring partisan politics into every discussion.
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Violent nationalism isn't particularly partisan.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    Actually, it is. I mean "partisan" as in "parted into parties" which is the same as "us versus them" rather than more jargony "national political parties inside America".
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    It is usually extremely partisan. It is fairly rare for an entire country to be violently nationalisic, even if the ruling party is. Also, as saraid points out, it is by definition being partisan, just internationally rather than internally.

jevinskie 13y ago

I didn't down vote you but I will disagree with you. Criticizing the US does not mean that you support/can't criticize other countries.

cbaker 13y ago

Here is the US, we're allowed to criticize the government. If you're unhappy with that, maybe you'd like to move to North Korea, China, or any of those other countries where people like you are allowed to shut down critical thinking.

fleitz 13y ago
Didn't Snowden have to flee to China and then Russia so he could criticize his government with out fear of summary execution?
- joyeuse6701 13y ago
  Criticism of government has it's limits. Snowden is questionable because what he said was not public knowledge and had crippling negative effects towards security of the state, but say, expressing your criticism of government by blowing up a federal building...
  - fleitz 13y ago
    Similarly to how China would react to someone talking about Tianamen Square which isn't public knowledge but knowledge of it would cause a massive shit storm that would undermine the security of the state. It's not what happened, it's the idea of one man standing up to the state that strikes fear into their hearts.
    - enko 13y ago
      I would wager that almost every educated person in China knows exactly what happened at Tiananmen Square. Certainly every chinese person I've ever really gotten to know knew all about it. The politics around it is complicated, but there is an acceptance of sorts that there's some items the government does not want dwelled upon, and that's one of them. Don't underestimate Chinese political sophistication, especially amongst what we might call the middle class (a <10% minority in China). There is a common feeling, if not outright belief, that a strong government is necessary to hold the country together, especially during its current transition period with its massive inequalities. I am no expert but my impression is that the people who do know - the middle class educated, with internet access (firewalls are trivial to get around) understand or at least play along with the idea that from a stability point of view, some information is best not fully shared. I see some interesting parallels between Chinese political censorship and the debate about the NSA revelations, by the way. Both are about concealing information of great public interest in the name of some alleged greater good. The only real difference is that the events in Tianenmen Square happened outdoors.

phaus 13y ago

The phenomenon where people like you act as if anyone with something critical to say about the United States lacks patriotism is the very thing that is destroying our nation. I'm a moderate conservative and a Soldier, but your "love it or leave it" attitude is sickening to me. Its ruining our country, so please stop. Sure many countries are horrible places to live compared to the United States, but if we ignore our problems as you would have us do, that might not always be the case. Our founding fathers knew from the very start that government is but a necessary evil. One that requires constant monitoring and modification in order to keep the power in the hands of the American people, which is where it belongs. Patriotism is about loving one's country, not worshipping the government. I don't agree with every criticism of the United States that appeared in this thread, but I do agree with some of them.

Zigurd 13y ago

Are you for real?