6 ms·

Does anybody else constantly live in a state of guilt? So many lives lost and wars fought just to get us to where we are, and we reap the benefits. I feel so gu

by rfnslyr 13y ago

Does anybody else constantly live in a state of guilt? So many lives lost and wars fought just to get us to where we are, and we reap the benefits. I feel so guilty for having a good paying job in the city. I'm not adding any value to the world, none at all. I tinker with a few codes every day and make silly amounts of money, when there's people struggling to put food on the table working 18 hour days. I need to do something, something meaningful. Sure I send a few bucks every month to a few charities but that just makes me feel worse, like I'm loosely patching holes of my guilt with plaster that will fade the next day. What can I do? I don't belong here. I'm just another waste of space.

cgag 13y ago
I feel guilty for doing basically anything that isn't actively working to fix our horrible justice system.
evincarofautumn 13y ago
You are a waste of space. But committing suicide is so boring—I don’t recommend it. You are going to have to figure out the point you want your life to have. So quit complaining on the internet about your privileged guilt, save your silly amounts of money for a while, then spend it executing your vision. The best any of us can hope to do is to mean something to somebody.
- wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
  Edit. [disagreement was expressed re: suicide]
  - rktymnrml 13y ago
    No suicide jokes were used you illiterate boob.
    - wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
      Edit. [disagreement was expressed re: sockpuppet]
    - sillysaurus2 13y ago
      Will you both please stop this?
lostlogin 13y ago
Contact representatives in government bodies every so often. I'm not sure it makes a difference but I always figure that at a bare minimum it occupies some of their time (at least it does here in New Zealand, as the replies are not canned as far as I can tell, and they aren't from assistants either usually) which prevents other work getting done. I have a faint hope that it achieves more than this, but hope is about all.
javajosh 13y ago
There is hope. Software is the key to addressing a great deal of injustice in the world. I believe that software programmers who want to make a difference can do so by collaborating on open source projects intended for use by government at every level. Consider: if we can write the software that cities, states, and even the federal government uses to do it's job, then we can also have a material impact on transparency, usability, etc for the users. Take the judicial system. It is badly underfunded, especially in California, which has the largest civil court system in the Western world. What if an enterprising group of civic minded programmers simply wrote awesome, free, open software to run a state courtroom, complete with a self-help web interface? Such a project would not necessarily be fun. But it would be useful, and it would arguably contribute greatly to society.
- saraid216 13y ago
  Have you talked to Code for America at all? That's exactly the kind of thing they'd be interested in aiming for, I think.
  - javajosh 13y ago
    No I haven't, thanks for the reference. The link is http://www.codeforamerica.org/ http://www.codeforamerica.org/ for anyone else interested.
- jnbiche 13y ago
  > it would arguably contribute greatly to society. It would contribute to the system that is perpetuating these kinds of injustices. Recall that a good portion of these people serving life sentences for non-violent crimes are in state prisons. How is helping them build their software systems going to find justice for a man in jail for life for stealing some tools? By the way, this is not a rhetorical question: I'm honestly trying to understand this point of view.
  - javajosh 13y ago
    In this case, technology could have helped in (at least) two places: 1. In the courtroom. These people could have received a faster, more painless, and more just trial. The proceedings could have been more open, easier to search and data mine, and hence easier to react to faster. Additionally (and somewhat science-fictiony) I personally would like to see us experiment with alternative juries - particularly much larger, distributed juries. If justice can't be crowd-sourced, then I don't know what can. 2. In the legislature. Although the creation of bills is an intensely collaborative process, too often the details are delegated to underlings, and those details are seriously misinformed by the facts. So one piece of software that is needed world wide are better document collaboration tools that are tied to accurate sources. The legislature in particular should be obsessively concerned about how the justice system is applying their laws. Better visibility into what's happening, in real-time, would make the legislature a) more aware and b) more responsive to injustice.
cdcarter 13y ago
Find a local (and hopefully small) charity you like. Start giving to them, as much as you can. Volunteer with them. See if they are looking to add trustees. Find every way you can help. It's hard. It's not just giving $10 to Oxfam (which you should do anyway), it's a real dedication of time and care. But you'll meet people, you'll support something you are passionate about, and you'll have a lot less time to think about how you're a waste.
- jevinskie 13y ago
  I second volunteering. Donating your time makes you feel much more involved than if you donated an equivalent (or even greater than) your wage for that time. It also is a visible show of dedication to a cause!
jodrellblank 13y ago
What can I do? I don't belong here. I'm just another waste of space. Isn't everyone? Why is working 18 hours of labour a day inherently more valuable or useful to humanity, the planet, the universe, anything? Why is someone struggling inherently a better, more worthy person than anyone else (and by what standards?). Would you really prefer a world where everyone has to struggle to survive, because that's where it sounds like your comment is leading. The feeling of guilt is an echo in your head. It's not actually an objective measure of your worth, it's not really some outside deity judging you and finding you unworthy, even if it feels like it is. Because of this, there's no saying there is anything you can do to assuage your feelings of guilt if you go with them. Maybe it's a while loop that says "while (bad_things_happen_anywhere) { feel_guilty(); }". You ask what to do as if there's bound to be a corresponding "if I do X then I can feel less guilty" pattern in your head waiting to be triggered - but maybe there isn't. What you can do is work on it as your problem, your suffering, your mental issue that needs addressing in your head. You're not unhappy because the world sucks for a dirt poor person. You're unhappy because of a "be unhappy" thought stuck in your head. Don't change the world to stop this suffering, change your thoughts.
- collyw 13y ago
  I worked for an investment bank before for a year. I work for a genome sequencing centre now. In both cases building / maintaining databases. The work is paid less, and there is less opportunity to earn lots in the future, but I do feel better about myself for not being part of the corrupt self serving finance system. Many of our projects are involved in cancer research, so its doing the tiniest bit towards helping the world.
  - anu_gupta 13y ago
    You have my thanks and respect - I wish more people working in corrupt and unethical organisations did the same.
was_hellbanned 13y ago
Take some of your money and travel. Go to Cambodia and don't be shy with your cash. Visit the landmine museum, do some crying, and see how the resilient people are (slowly) making a comeback. Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children. Hire a guide. Stimulate their local economy, then come back with a greater appreciation of everything in your life. Vote (I suggest independent, since mainstream are different shades of the same color), focus on your friendships, and find yourself a more challenging and fulfilling job, and don't read so much bad news. Everyone plays a role in the world, and yours doesn't have to be one of direct savior. You can and do add value in innumerable ways that you don't even notice.
- enko 13y ago
  > Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children Oh FFS, don't do that, it just encourages them to treat visiting whiteys as walking ATMs, which is bad for their tourism industry long-term. Stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, take taxis, but don't encourage the obnoxious hawkers, no matter how young they are.
  - heynk 13y ago
    Would you advocate for the same 'top-down' approach to stimulating the economy in the US or another developed country? I think the concept of 'hawkers' could be easily applied to startups. Do you believe a good consumer should be supporting big corporations or fledgling startups? I'm just genuinely curious of your position and if you think the analogy applies in the first world.
    - enko 13y ago
      I am not so sure it is such a good analogy. The "business model" of these hawkers in third world countries like Cambodia or Laos is to explicitly present themselves as impoverished, and then pressure or guilt-trip you into buying something from them as a gesture of charity. The OP seemed to encourage such behaviour, even admitted it was "crap" they were selling (it is). I'd suggest that any startup worth its salt is actually offering something of real value, not explicitly a charity case, so the analogy completely breaks down. I fully support encouraging the startup ecosystem. And I'm not even sure about using a term like "top down". Hotels really do employ locals, as do restaurants, and by patronising them you send a strong signal of support to the local tourism industry. With that assurance they can make plans, invest, advertise, expand. It's not about making the rich richer, not at all. Giving a small regional tourism industry the confidence to plan for the future is a wonderful thing.
grahamburger 13y ago
Remember that not everyone who is poor is unhappy.
- smtddr 13y ago
  ...and not everyone who's rich, is happy...
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    But the main worry that unhappy people have is lack of money, so it's not at all parallel or equivalent.
mixmastamyk 13y ago
No. If you're paying taxes and not a criminal/on the dole, we need ya... and more of ya.
Amadou 13y ago
What can I do? Don't do it from a place of guilt, find something that you feel passionately about, cut back on the meaningless and lucrative tinkering and start tinkering for your passion. Your most valuable contribution to the world is your time, arrange your life so that you can spend as much time as possible, without burning out, on something meaningful to you.
lancewiggs 13y ago
I really liked this "own a problem" perspective from an HR post (1). Pick a problem to help solve, prioritise that and deprioritise everything else to solve it. You can also shift to work for an institution which is genuinely trying to do good, such as the World Bank or a not-for-profit. Or you can do what you can from within your own organisation to get them to be working to improve the world rather than take advantage of it. (1) http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/11/what-problem-will-you-own/ http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/11/what-problem-will-you-own/ <update - my apologies, there is a registration requirement for the article. The lightbox appears after a little wait, so you should be able to read it>
- nhaehnle 13y ago
  "... such as the World Bank ..." Just keep in mind the World Bank is considered by many as an instrumental part of a quasi-colonial system of institutions that is set up to exploit the third world through their advocacy for unfavorable debt and a certain economical bias. I'm sure they also do some good, but they are at least a somewhat ambiguous organization.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
dodyg 13y ago
I am a third worlder currently living in Cairo - if you think a bit of poverty here and there in the US is bad, here in this city we are surrounded by it. Being poor is not a moral flaw and I see people everyday go out of their bed and try to win most of their days. Still people manage to find happiness within the most dire constraints. You cannot do everything and nobody expects to. Take comfort in that. We are all doing out bits to repair the world (There's a wonderful Hebrew phrase for this: Tikkun olam). But when you have the means, go travel. Meet the others who occupy this world, who have different perspective of living, who struggles with different things that you do. They will be happy to meet you.
- waps 13y ago
  I have visited, amongst other places, Cairo. I wouldn't be able to live there for the guilt it would instil in me. Sadly, Cairo is by far not the worst place (compared to New Delhi, government services are quite good in Cairo. Yes, really), and several "first world" locations are, at best, a degree of difference with Cairo (Hong Kong would be a good example). People don't seem to be able to imagine just how bad life is in the third world for the majority of people. And frankly, sorry to put it so bluntly, but here's a thought people should think about. Given you are a third-worlder, would you want to be one of the exploited or one of the non-exploited. Given that in practice most third-worlders still choose what job they want, the answer is obvious : with very few exceptions, people want to be one of the "exploited". Visit a third-world city, turn a few non-approved blocks, and you'll understand why. Btw: one of the things that amazed me about Cairo is that they've created a "fake" city center, where the poverty you see is almost absent, in a way that I've seen nowhere else. So in Cairo, you definitely have to turn a few non-approved blocks.
mattraibert 13y ago
There are days when I could write this comment. But what you describe does not sound like an honest or clear assessment of the world. It sounds more like depression. Which is real and serious and treatable. The world is often tragic. It <em>is</em> wrong to live comfortably and be willfully ignorant to tragedy, but it is not wrong to take care of yourself and make yourself whole. So, yes, seek something meaningful to make the world better, and start by taking care of yourself.
rjurney 13y ago
Change your life. Go work for a non-profit.

by rfnslyr 13y ago

cgag 13y ago

I feel guilty for doing basically anything that isn't actively working to fix our horrible justice system.

evincarofautumn 13y ago

You are a waste of space. But committing suicide is so boring—I don’t recommend it. You are going to have to figure out the point you want your life to have. So quit complaining on the internet about your privileged guilt, save your silly amounts of money for a while, then spend it executing your vision. The best any of us can hope to do is to mean something to somebody.

wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
Edit. [disagreement was expressed re: suicide]
- rktymnrml 13y ago
  No suicide jokes were used you illiterate boob.
  - wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
    Edit. [disagreement was expressed re: sockpuppet]
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    Will you both please stop this?

lostlogin 13y ago

Contact representatives in government bodies every so often. I'm not sure it makes a difference but I always figure that at a bare minimum it occupies some of their time (at least it does here in New Zealand, as the replies are not canned as far as I can tell, and they aren't from assistants either usually) which prevents other work getting done. I have a faint hope that it achieves more than this, but hope is about all.

javajosh 13y ago

There is hope. Software is the key to addressing a great deal of injustice in the world. I believe that software programmers who want to make a difference can do so by collaborating on open source projects intended for use by government at every level. Consider: if we can write the software that cities, states, and even the federal government uses to do it's job, then we can also have a material impact on transparency, usability, etc for the users. Take the judicial system. It is badly underfunded, especially in California, which has the largest civil court system in the Western world. What if an enterprising group of civic minded programmers simply wrote awesome, free, open software to run a state courtroom, complete with a self-help web interface? Such a project would not necessarily be fun. But it would be useful, and it would arguably contribute greatly to society.

saraid216 13y ago
Have you talked to Code for America at all? That's exactly the kind of thing they'd be interested in aiming for, I think.
- javajosh 13y ago
  No I haven't, thanks for the reference. The link is http://www.codeforamerica.org/ http://www.codeforamerica.org/ for anyone else interested.
jnbiche 13y ago
> it would arguably contribute greatly to society. It would contribute to the system that is perpetuating these kinds of injustices. Recall that a good portion of these people serving life sentences for non-violent crimes are in state prisons. How is helping them build their software systems going to find justice for a man in jail for life for stealing some tools? By the way, this is not a rhetorical question: I'm honestly trying to understand this point of view.
- javajosh 13y ago
  In this case, technology could have helped in (at least) two places: 1. In the courtroom. These people could have received a faster, more painless, and more just trial. The proceedings could have been more open, easier to search and data mine, and hence easier to react to faster. Additionally (and somewhat science-fictiony) I personally would like to see us experiment with alternative juries - particularly much larger, distributed juries. If justice can't be crowd-sourced, then I don't know what can. 2. In the legislature. Although the creation of bills is an intensely collaborative process, too often the details are delegated to underlings, and those details are seriously misinformed by the facts. So one piece of software that is needed world wide are better document collaboration tools that are tied to accurate sources. The legislature in particular should be obsessively concerned about how the justice system is applying their laws. Better visibility into what's happening, in real-time, would make the legislature a) more aware and b) more responsive to injustice.

cdcarter 13y ago

Find a local (and hopefully small) charity you like. Start giving to them, as much as you can. Volunteer with them. See if they are looking to add trustees. Find every way you can help. It's hard. It's not just giving $10 to Oxfam (which you should do anyway), it's a real dedication of time and care. But you'll meet people, you'll support something you are passionate about, and you'll have a lot less time to think about how you're a waste.

jevinskie 13y ago
I second volunteering. Donating your time makes you feel much more involved than if you donated an equivalent (or even greater than) your wage for that time. It also is a visible show of dedication to a cause!

jodrellblank 13y ago

What can I do? I don't belong here. I'm just another waste of space. Isn't everyone? Why is working 18 hours of labour a day inherently more valuable or useful to humanity, the planet, the universe, anything? Why is someone struggling inherently a better, more worthy person than anyone else (and by what standards?). Would you really prefer a world where everyone has to struggle to survive, because that's where it sounds like your comment is leading. The feeling of guilt is an echo in your head. It's not actually an objective measure of your worth, it's not really some outside deity judging you and finding you unworthy, even if it feels like it is. Because of this, there's no saying there is anything you can do to assuage your feelings of guilt if you go with them. Maybe it's a while loop that says "while (bad_things_happen_anywhere) { feel_guilty(); }". You ask what to do as if there's bound to be a corresponding "if I do X then I can feel less guilty" pattern in your head waiting to be triggered - but maybe there isn't. What you can do is work on it as your problem, your suffering, your mental issue that needs addressing in your head. You're not unhappy because the world sucks for a dirt poor person. You're unhappy because of a "be unhappy" thought stuck in your head. Don't change the world to stop this suffering, change your thoughts.

collyw 13y ago
I worked for an investment bank before for a year. I work for a genome sequencing centre now. In both cases building / maintaining databases. The work is paid less, and there is less opportunity to earn lots in the future, but I do feel better about myself for not being part of the corrupt self serving finance system. Many of our projects are involved in cancer research, so its doing the tiniest bit towards helping the world.
- anu_gupta 13y ago
  You have my thanks and respect - I wish more people working in corrupt and unethical organisations did the same.

was_hellbanned 13y ago

Take some of your money and travel. Go to Cambodia and don't be shy with your cash. Visit the landmine museum, do some crying, and see how the resilient people are (slowly) making a comeback. Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children. Hire a guide. Stimulate their local economy, then come back with a greater appreciation of everything in your life. Vote (I suggest independent, since mainstream are different shades of the same color), focus on your friendships, and find yourself a more challenging and fulfilling job, and don't read so much bad news. Everyone plays a role in the world, and yours doesn't have to be one of direct savior. You can and do add value in innumerable ways that you don't even notice.

enko 13y ago
> Buy all the trinkets and crap off the swarming children Oh FFS, don't do that, it just encourages them to treat visiting whiteys as walking ATMs, which is bad for their tourism industry long-term. Stay at hotels, eat at restaurants, take taxis, but don't encourage the obnoxious hawkers, no matter how young they are.
- heynk 13y ago
  Would you advocate for the same 'top-down' approach to stimulating the economy in the US or another developed country? I think the concept of 'hawkers' could be easily applied to startups. Do you believe a good consumer should be supporting big corporations or fledgling startups? I'm just genuinely curious of your position and if you think the analogy applies in the first world.
  - enko 13y ago
    I am not so sure it is such a good analogy. The "business model" of these hawkers in third world countries like Cambodia or Laos is to explicitly present themselves as impoverished, and then pressure or guilt-trip you into buying something from them as a gesture of charity. The OP seemed to encourage such behaviour, even admitted it was "crap" they were selling (it is). I'd suggest that any startup worth its salt is actually offering something of real value, not explicitly a charity case, so the analogy completely breaks down. I fully support encouraging the startup ecosystem. And I'm not even sure about using a term like "top down". Hotels really do employ locals, as do restaurants, and by patronising them you send a strong signal of support to the local tourism industry. With that assurance they can make plans, invest, advertise, expand. It's not about making the rich richer, not at all. Giving a small regional tourism industry the confidence to plan for the future is a wonderful thing.

grahamburger 13y ago

Remember that not everyone who is poor is unhappy.

smtddr 13y ago
...and not everyone who's rich, is happy...
- pessimizer 13y ago
  But the main worry that unhappy people have is lack of money, so it's not at all parallel or equivalent.

mixmastamyk 13y ago

No. If you're paying taxes and not a criminal/on the dole, we need ya... and more of ya.

Amadou 13y ago

What can I do? Don't do it from a place of guilt, find something that you feel passionately about, cut back on the meaningless and lucrative tinkering and start tinkering for your passion. Your most valuable contribution to the world is your time, arrange your life so that you can spend as much time as possible, without burning out, on something meaningful to you.

lancewiggs 13y ago

I really liked this "own a problem" perspective from an HR post (1). Pick a problem to help solve, prioritise that and deprioritise everything else to solve it. You can also shift to work for an institution which is genuinely trying to do good, such as the World Bank or a not-for-profit. Or you can do what you can from within your own organisation to get them to be working to improve the world rather than take advantage of it. (1) http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/11/what-problem-will-you-own/ http://blogs.hbr.org/2013/11/what-problem-will-you-own/ <update - my apologies, there is a registration requirement for the article. The lightbox appears after a little wait, so you should be able to read it>

nhaehnle 13y ago
"... such as the World Bank ..." Just keep in mind the World Bank is considered by many as an instrumental part of a quasi-colonial system of institutions that is set up to exploit the third world through their advocacy for unfavorable debt and a certain economical bias. I'm sure they also do some good, but they are at least a somewhat ambiguous organization.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

dodyg 13y ago

I am a third worlder currently living in Cairo - if you think a bit of poverty here and there in the US is bad, here in this city we are surrounded by it. Being poor is not a moral flaw and I see people everyday go out of their bed and try to win most of their days. Still people manage to find happiness within the most dire constraints. You cannot do everything and nobody expects to. Take comfort in that. We are all doing out bits to repair the world (There's a wonderful Hebrew phrase for this: Tikkun olam). But when you have the means, go travel. Meet the others who occupy this world, who have different perspective of living, who struggles with different things that you do. They will be happy to meet you.

waps 13y ago
I have visited, amongst other places, Cairo. I wouldn't be able to live there for the guilt it would instil in me. Sadly, Cairo is by far not the worst place (compared to New Delhi, government services are quite good in Cairo. Yes, really), and several "first world" locations are, at best, a degree of difference with Cairo (Hong Kong would be a good example). People don't seem to be able to imagine just how bad life is in the third world for the majority of people. And frankly, sorry to put it so bluntly, but here's a thought people should think about. Given you are a third-worlder, would you want to be one of the exploited or one of the non-exploited. Given that in practice most third-worlders still choose what job they want, the answer is obvious : with very few exceptions, people want to be one of the "exploited". Visit a third-world city, turn a few non-approved blocks, and you'll understand why. Btw: one of the things that amazed me about Cairo is that they've created a "fake" city center, where the poverty you see is almost absent, in a way that I've seen nowhere else. So in Cairo, you definitely have to turn a few non-approved blocks.

mattraibert 13y ago

There are days when I could write this comment. But what you describe does not sound like an honest or clear assessment of the world. It sounds more like depression. Which is real and serious and treatable. The world is often tragic. It <em>is</em> wrong to live comfortably and be willfully ignorant to tragedy, but it is not wrong to take care of yourself and make yourself whole. So, yes, seek something meaningful to make the world better, and start by taking care of yourself.

rjurney 13y ago

Change your life. Go work for a non-profit.