8 ms·

Oh, this is so classy: https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?viewemailid=8402 https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?viewemailid=8402 Quote: Oh, they have enou

by kid0m4n 13y ago

Oh, this is so classy: https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?viewemailid=8402 https://search.wikileaks.org/gifiles/?viewemailid=8402 Quote: Oh, they have enough weapons. Now the serious game begins as Reva pointed out. The investigation of the attack is not interesting. I suspect the findings have already been reached before the first investigator got to work. Now the question is how India responds. God willing, the Indian response will make us a lot of money. This after the devastating terrorist attack in Mumbai which killed 164 people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Mumbai_attacks

hansjorg 13y ago
It's just business. Conflict is extremely profitable. Unfortunately, 164 people is a drop in a bucket in an ocean.
- monsterix 13y ago
  That's not true! People who died in these five star hotels and their conference rooms were top notch entrepreneurs, executives AND ordinary people of India [1]. So 164 people who died is not just a drop in the ocean as you would like to believe here. [1] http://www.indianexpress.com/news/yes-bank-chairman-ashok-kapur-killed-in-terror-attack/392022/ http://www.indianexpress.com/news/yes-bank-chairman-ashok-ka...
  - lvs 13y ago
    What a horrible thing to think or say. Entrepreneurs and executives be damned; human beings are human beings.
  - sillysaurus2 13y ago
    People who died in these five star hotels and their conference rooms were top notch entrepreneurs, executives AND ordinary people of India [1]. So 164 people who died is not just a drop in the ocean as you would like to believe here. Death of innocents is a tragedy whether they were an entrepreneur, an executive, or a janitor.
    - monsterix 13y ago
      You're right. But when conflict is extremely profitable for some then the value of those who died and are going to die is already under material consideration within that justification. On the parent comment 164 people sounded like a lame statistic, involuntarily generalizing everyone as "people who just died there" and this is usual business for others to profit from it. I know what you're trying to say. Sure everyone innocent who died there was an equal human being and this tragedy should be left at that.
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
  - pekk 13y ago
    Are we already implying that Stratfor carried out the bombing? Wow.
- derrida 13y ago
  "It's just business." Oh, it's ok then.
- loceng 13y ago
  You don't see a problem with this?
iamshs 13y ago
Holy damn. Here is one interview of her (Reva Bhalla): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1gJOPCipY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1gJOPCipY And at the end she is linking the attack to Al Qaeda. I think this is why they are giving her kudos, for planting the seed. This is nefarious on so many levels. This means India directly comes under pressure to respond back to Pakistan, and then respond to allegations that Al Qaeda is expanding in India. It is ironic that it was one of the CIA double agent, with links to terrorist organization LeT, who conducted recce of the sites before attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley India was under so much pressure to go to war at that time. Experts were gunning for surgical strikes. Imagine the pressure on bureaucrats, especially when both countries have nuclear arsenal. Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some?
- deadfall 13y ago
  "Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some?" IMO education and intelligence may sometimes fuel the "inner devil". "Greed has poisoned men's souls." I really think it is power and or authority that may be the culprit in these kinds of situations. Some people are completely disconnected from our fellow humans.
  - niels_olson 13y ago
    > power ... authority ... completely disconnected from our fellow humans Highly relevant: http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~uzimmerm/Notes/Ludwig+Longenecker,%20The%20Bathsheba%20Syndrome.pdf http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~uzimmerm/Notes/Ludwig+Longenecke...
- ahomescu1 13y ago
  > Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some? Neither ignorance nor stupidity cause people to act this way.
- jeswin 13y ago
  It could also have meant that investigators have already decided who did this. IIRC, hours after the attacks we were already suggesting Pakistan. In the end it turned out to be close, but jumping into conclusions would not help our credibility. Reva Bhalla's interview is too insignificant to directly affect our decision to respond. She was speculating, but everyone (including the government!) was speculating too and they were all pretty much saying the same thing. Which is, "someone in Pakistan". I haven't seen anything seriously damaging yet from the India files. People aren't always very mild in emails, and some of them were just jokes. Some jokes were crude, but we all make such jokes.
monsterix 13y ago
This makes me sick to the stomach. I was in India when the Mumbai carnage took place. My classmate from IIT was killed the same day at the very same spot [1]. And here we have this class of a bitch thinking of making a "lot of money" off a probable war ['caged match' look at the audacity!]. No wonder they say karma is broken all over the place. On another story these same corrupt assholes have abused their power to send a whistle blower to jail and serve a 10 years term [2]. Nice going, keep it up newage SS! [1] http://www.iitfoundation.org/?p=200 http://www.iitfoundation.org/?p=200 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740652
- refurb 13y ago
  How is this any different than the "Scud Stud" Peter Kent making his career of the Iraq War? Or a defense lawyer becoming famous because he got a murder case dismissed on a technicality? Sure, it's pretty crappy, tasteless behavior, but lets not go overboard here.
- jeswin 13y ago
  Relax, they are more like a news company. If you checked the emails of CNN, Fox, or even BBC you might find similar stuff. All news companies, including Indian TV channels love bad news. Stratfor is nowhere close to holding the kind of power you are imagining.
  - COMS 13y ago
    On the ground human intelligence is power. And Barron's called Stratfor "the shadow CIA". I have limited experience in this but I've seen some egregious things with current intelligence employees and private contractors. I think you are underestimating outside ways these guys could profit and/or use their intelligence collection news company to encourage those profits.
    - pekk 13y ago
      Since intelligence is just a fancy word for news, I guess that means every journalist needs to be at the sharp end of the same mob justice
grecy 13y ago
These kinds of people need to be in prison, not the people exposing what they're doing.
- dandelany 13y ago
  What do you mean by "these kinds of people"? Greedy people? People who say things that are tasteless and mean? I'm pretty sure there's no law against any of that. Please enlighten me re: the law they've broken, otherwise I hope you can see the inherent irony in your statement... </unpopularOpinion> edit: I'm not being ornery, I'm really actually curious what people think they should go to prison for. Tastelessness != criminality.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    These people aren't just a group of kids on xboxLive making idle threats. They are making real plans and use their influence to make money at the cost of killing people. Conspiracy to commit murder for financial gain sounds like a good fit here. Or at least intent to indirectly end lives for money. EDIT: Ouch, game over for me... I thought these email leaks involved government officials 'n such. If these are like reading the emails of FOXNews, then nevermind. They're bad people(IMHO), but can't jail 'em anymore than we can jail the people of stormfront.org
    - dandelany 13y ago
      Conspiracy to commit murder? What are you talking about? Do you even know what Stratfor is? They're a glorified news organization. They're no more involved in the Mumbai terror plot than CNN is. As I said, they stand to profit because people will want more information about these events, which they provide. The stuff about supplying weapons is clearly a (bad, stupid) offhanded joke.
  - monsterix 13y ago
    > I'm pretty sure there's no law against any of that. Agreed. Unfortunately there is no recourse until a power center rises elsewhere. They say written history would have been very different in case Germany had won their war.
rickhanlonii 13y ago
I'm about to throw up. Here's what that message was a reply to: -----Original Message----- From: eisenstein@stratfor.com [mailto:eisenstein@stratfor.com] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:02 AM To: Fred Burton Cc: <allstratfor@stratfor.com> Subject: Re: Reva rocks Will be glad to supply weapons to both sides if India and Pakistan want a cage match. India gets the net and trident and the pakistanis get the shield and short sword. Kamran can instruct in Klingon Sent from my iPhone
- loceng 13y ago
  These people should be hung.
  - whyenot 13y ago
    People who say something you don't like should be lynched? Really? How about what you are doing, advocating for someone's murder?
    - hobs 13y ago
      War profiteers, the good guys.
    - rhizome 13y ago
      They didn't advocate murder, only a sentence. It's a way of expressing a preference that something be illegal, and have a particular punishment.
    - loceng 13y ago
      There's a difference between someone who says something, and someone who acts out on it - and when they're in the business of selling weapons or profiting from it - and say something like that, which will lead to action or is inherently acted upon because of the nature of what they're doing (the business they are in) - then it's no longer just a "freedom of speech" thing. You can say you want to kill someone, or even tell them you're going to kill them - but under law, it's only when you act on it OR have a plan to do so that the scenario becomes illegal - and you'll go to jail if you then kill said person (assuming you get caught) or have a plan to do so. Likewise, them just saying wouldn't be illegal, however I feel them acting out and selling actual weapons to both sides (and perhaps somehow inciting war between two parties to then profit) should IMHO be illegal, stating their intent they would and would love to is not only having a plan stated but perhaps one of the most disturbing disconnected inhumane uncaring violent acts a person could partake in. I don't generally agree that killing of anyone is right - though perhaps with the only exception of those who actively kill others or lead violence - however that's for a society to determine what is acceptable. Unfortunately many things a society deems unacceptable (even existing laws that are enforced) are happening and go unchanged, though we're moving towards a system that is more in line with general views. There are more basic issues that need to be taken care of first to help alleviate people's worries and stresses, removing fear of survival will solve most, if not lead to solving all problems.
ThrowFarAway 13y ago
He's pretty clearly implying that the investigation is rigged, and therefore uninteresting. The money comment is a pretty insensitive. That said, a lot of time spent on any particular thing tends to result in serious desensitization to the subject. Go have dinner with a few EMTs and listen to their shop talk. ("He was tasting for air, saying, 'dudegaspam Igaspgonnagasplive?', and all I could muster was, 'dudemock gasp, mock gasp no, mock gasp you aren't mock gasp gonna live!'" Followed by a few rounds of laughter. Got to hear that little gem said just the other night by one of the top Search & Rescue professionals in the world.) This kind of thing isn't uncommon, or even that big a deal. Few people can withstand the scrutiny of a public life-dump. Tackiness aside, I don't think it's sufficient evidence for us to call for anyone's hanging or jailing, like some seem to be advocating here.

by kid0m4n 13y ago

hansjorg 13y ago

It's just business. Conflict is extremely profitable. Unfortunately, 164 people is a drop in a bucket in an ocean.

monsterix 13y ago
That's not true! People who died in these five star hotels and their conference rooms were top notch entrepreneurs, executives AND ordinary people of India [1]. So 164 people who died is not just a drop in the ocean as you would like to believe here. [1] http://www.indianexpress.com/news/yes-bank-chairman-ashok-kapur-killed-in-terror-attack/392022/ http://www.indianexpress.com/news/yes-bank-chairman-ashok-ka...
- lvs 13y ago
  What a horrible thing to think or say. Entrepreneurs and executives be damned; human beings are human beings.
- sillysaurus2 13y ago
  People who died in these five star hotels and their conference rooms were top notch entrepreneurs, executives AND ordinary people of India [1]. So 164 people who died is not just a drop in the ocean as you would like to believe here. Death of innocents is a tragedy whether they were an entrepreneur, an executive, or a janitor.
  - monsterix 13y ago
    You're right. But when conflict is extremely profitable for some then the value of those who died and are going to die is already under material consideration within that justification. On the parent comment 164 people sounded like a lame statistic, involuntarily generalizing everyone as "people who just died there" and this is usual business for others to profit from it. I know what you're trying to say. Sure everyone innocent who died there was an equal human being and this tragedy should be left at that.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
- pekk 13y ago
  Are we already implying that Stratfor carried out the bombing? Wow.
derrida 13y ago
"It's just business." Oh, it's ok then.
loceng 13y ago
You don't see a problem with this?

iamshs 13y ago

Holy damn. Here is one interview of her (Reva Bhalla): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1gJOPCipY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1gJOPCipY And at the end she is linking the attack to Al Qaeda. I think this is why they are giving her kudos, for planting the seed. This is nefarious on so many levels. This means India directly comes under pressure to respond back to Pakistan, and then respond to allegations that Al Qaeda is expanding in India. It is ironic that it was one of the CIA double agent, with links to terrorist organization LeT, who conducted recce of the sites before attacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Headley India was under so much pressure to go to war at that time. Experts were gunning for surgical strikes. Imagine the pressure on bureaucrats, especially when both countries have nuclear arsenal. Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some?

deadfall 13y ago
"Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some?" IMO education and intelligence may sometimes fuel the "inner devil". "Greed has poisoned men's souls." I really think it is power and or authority that may be the culprit in these kinds of situations. Some people are completely disconnected from our fellow humans.
- niels_olson 13y ago
  > power ... authority ... completely disconnected from our fellow humans Highly relevant: http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~uzimmerm/Notes/Ludwig+Longenecker,%20The%20Bathsheba%20Syndrome.pdf http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~uzimmerm/Notes/Ludwig+Longenecke...
ahomescu1 13y ago
> Why does education/intelligence/morality not cull the inner devil of some? Neither ignorance nor stupidity cause people to act this way.
jeswin 13y ago
It could also have meant that investigators have already decided who did this. IIRC, hours after the attacks we were already suggesting Pakistan. In the end it turned out to be close, but jumping into conclusions would not help our credibility. Reva Bhalla's interview is too insignificant to directly affect our decision to respond. She was speculating, but everyone (including the government!) was speculating too and they were all pretty much saying the same thing. Which is, "someone in Pakistan". I haven't seen anything seriously damaging yet from the India files. People aren't always very mild in emails, and some of them were just jokes. Some jokes were crude, but we all make such jokes.

monsterix 13y ago

This makes me sick to the stomach. I was in India when the Mumbai carnage took place. My classmate from IIT was killed the same day at the very same spot [1]. And here we have this class of a bitch thinking of making a "lot of money" off a probable war ['caged match' look at the audacity!]. No wonder they say karma is broken all over the place. On another story these same corrupt assholes have abused their power to send a whistle blower to jail and serve a 10 years term [2]. Nice going, keep it up newage SS! [1] http://www.iitfoundation.org/?p=200 http://www.iitfoundation.org/?p=200 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740652

refurb 13y ago
How is this any different than the "Scud Stud" Peter Kent making his career of the Iraq War? Or a defense lawyer becoming famous because he got a murder case dismissed on a technicality? Sure, it's pretty crappy, tasteless behavior, but lets not go overboard here.
jeswin 13y ago
Relax, they are more like a news company. If you checked the emails of CNN, Fox, or even BBC you might find similar stuff. All news companies, including Indian TV channels love bad news. Stratfor is nowhere close to holding the kind of power you are imagining.
- COMS 13y ago
  On the ground human intelligence is power. And Barron's called Stratfor "the shadow CIA". I have limited experience in this but I've seen some egregious things with current intelligence employees and private contractors. I think you are underestimating outside ways these guys could profit and/or use their intelligence collection news company to encourage those profits.
  - pekk 13y ago
    Since intelligence is just a fancy word for news, I guess that means every journalist needs to be at the sharp end of the same mob justice

grecy 13y ago

These kinds of people need to be in prison, not the people exposing what they're doing.

dandelany 13y ago
What do you mean by "these kinds of people"? Greedy people? People who say things that are tasteless and mean? I'm pretty sure there's no law against any of that. Please enlighten me re: the law they've broken, otherwise I hope you can see the inherent irony in your statement... </unpopularOpinion> edit: I'm not being ornery, I'm really actually curious what people think they should go to prison for. Tastelessness != criminality.
- smtddr 13y ago
  These people aren't just a group of kids on xboxLive making idle threats. They are making real plans and use their influence to make money at the cost of killing people. Conspiracy to commit murder for financial gain sounds like a good fit here. Or at least intent to indirectly end lives for money. EDIT: Ouch, game over for me... I thought these email leaks involved government officials 'n such. If these are like reading the emails of FOXNews, then nevermind. They're bad people(IMHO), but can't jail 'em anymore than we can jail the people of stormfront.org
  - dandelany 13y ago
    Conspiracy to commit murder? What are you talking about? Do you even know what Stratfor is? They're a glorified news organization. They're no more involved in the Mumbai terror plot than CNN is. As I said, they stand to profit because people will want more information about these events, which they provide. The stuff about supplying weapons is clearly a (bad, stupid) offhanded joke.
- monsterix 13y ago
  > I'm pretty sure there's no law against any of that. Agreed. Unfortunately there is no recourse until a power center rises elsewhere. They say written history would have been very different in case Germany had won their war.

rickhanlonii 13y ago

I'm about to throw up. Here's what that message was a reply to: -----Original Message----- From: eisenstein@stratfor.com [mailto:eisenstein@stratfor.com] Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2008 10:02 AM To: Fred Burton Cc: <allstratfor@stratfor.com> Subject: Re: Reva rocks Will be glad to supply weapons to both sides if India and Pakistan want a cage match. India gets the net and trident and the pakistanis get the shield and short sword. Kamran can instruct in Klingon Sent from my iPhone

loceng 13y ago
These people should be hung.
- whyenot 13y ago
  People who say something you don't like should be lynched? Really? How about what you are doing, advocating for someone's murder?
  - hobs 13y ago
    War profiteers, the good guys.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    They didn't advocate murder, only a sentence. It's a way of expressing a preference that something be illegal, and have a particular punishment.
  - loceng 13y ago
    There's a difference between someone who says something, and someone who acts out on it - and when they're in the business of selling weapons or profiting from it - and say something like that, which will lead to action or is inherently acted upon because of the nature of what they're doing (the business they are in) - then it's no longer just a "freedom of speech" thing. You can say you want to kill someone, or even tell them you're going to kill them - but under law, it's only when you act on it OR have a plan to do so that the scenario becomes illegal - and you'll go to jail if you then kill said person (assuming you get caught) or have a plan to do so. Likewise, them just saying wouldn't be illegal, however I feel them acting out and selling actual weapons to both sides (and perhaps somehow inciting war between two parties to then profit) should IMHO be illegal, stating their intent they would and would love to is not only having a plan stated but perhaps one of the most disturbing disconnected inhumane uncaring violent acts a person could partake in. I don't generally agree that killing of anyone is right - though perhaps with the only exception of those who actively kill others or lead violence - however that's for a society to determine what is acceptable. Unfortunately many things a society deems unacceptable (even existing laws that are enforced) are happening and go unchanged, though we're moving towards a system that is more in line with general views. There are more basic issues that need to be taken care of first to help alleviate people's worries and stresses, removing fear of survival will solve most, if not lead to solving all problems.

ThrowFarAway 13y ago

He's pretty clearly implying that the investigation is rigged, and therefore uninteresting. The money comment is a pretty insensitive. That said, a lot of time spent on any particular thing tends to result in serious desensitization to the subject. Go have dinner with a few EMTs and listen to their shop talk. ("He was tasting for air, saying, 'dudegaspam Igaspgonnagasplive?', and all I could muster was, 'dudemock gasp, mock gasp no, mock gasp you aren't mock gasp gonna live!'" Followed by a few rounds of laughter. Got to hear that little gem said just the other night by one of the top Search & Rescue professionals in the world.) This kind of thing isn't uncommon, or even that big a deal. Few people can withstand the scrutiny of a public life-dump. Tackiness aside, I don't think it's sufficient evidence for us to call for anyone's hanging or jailing, like some seem to be advocating here.