4 ms·

10 years doesn't strike me as unreasonable. What he did basically amounted to burglary and over $1M in credit card fraud. 10 years is at the upper end of what I

10 years doesn't strike me as unreasonable. What he did basically amounted to burglary and over $1M in credit card fraud. 10 years is at the upper end of what I would sentence for those crimes, but it's not out of range -- especially considering that he's relatively unrepentant about the whole thing.

billmalarky 13y ago
Over a million dollars in credit card fraud? 10 years sounds reasonable for something like that.
- angersock 13y ago
  Million dollars? As opposed to the billions lost in 2008, and the people rewarded with bailouts for their fraud? Pshyeah, hokay. Justice is truly being served here.
- lowkeykiwi 13y ago
  He didn't steal any money. He stole a crap load of information and credit card numbers were in there. They've extrapolated to a million dollars by adding all the credit limits together.
gngeal 13y ago
10 years doesn't strike me as unreasonable. ...while in Norway, you typically only get the maximum 21 years of imprisonment for multiple murders. And even that is apparently with the possibility of an early release after 14 years and unsupervised weekend parole after 7 years. And even with murder on your hands, they just might send you off to Bastøy to rehabilitate yourself properly. And somehow, the crime rate in Norway is still much lower, as are the reoffending rates. I just wonder, what comes next in the US, two years for littering, perhaps?
- pessimizer 13y ago
  Life sentences for repeat offenders caught shoplifting food are last decade's news.
- VladRussian2 13y ago
  >I just wonder, what comes next in the US, two years for littering, perhaps? well, theoretically you can get up to 1 year in many states, though i suspect usually it is much-much less harsh than that. http://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resources/states-with-littering-penalties.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resourc...
- mseidl 13y ago
  What is the actual re-offense rate? I've been curious about this
- cobrausn 13y ago
  You cannot just take a system that works some place in the world and transplant it to another, completely devoid of any cultural context associated with it. What works for Norway would probably work really well if applied to most middle-class Americans. I seriously doubt we would see much success with a system like that applied across the board - there are too many other problems keeping our recidivism rate up, such as lack of support after jail, the lucrative nature of the drug trade, the way we structure our prisons to support gang mentalities, the lack of opportunities for convicted felons, etc etc. Since we're being honest here, if someone murdered someone close to me and then got unsupervised weekend parole after 7 years, they'd be dead in an alley their first weekend out. Maybe Norweigans are very different, culturally. Maybe I'm just a vengeful asshole who should just deal with it - but I doubt I'm alone over here. But this could also just be a reaction to violent crime - I don't feel as though most non-violent crime deserves harsh sentences. Hell, I'd settle for large fines in most cases.
  - dmix 13y ago
    > What works for Norway would probably work really well if applied to most middle-class Americans. I seriously doubt we would see much success with a system like that applied across the board This is why the federated approach to governing was a big part of the American founding fathers literature (focusing on state-level power), which they viewed as a counter-point to the negative side-effects of centralized Monarchy systems in Europe. The American government has been reversing it's course - centralizing law (and law enforcement) to a national level - over the last century. Making experimentation with new systems and adaptation to better systems much more difficult.
  - cgag 13y ago
    And how many years do you think you would deserve for killing him in an alley? How much less likely to kill again would you be after 10 years in prison vs 5/15/20?
    - cobrausn 13y ago
      'Less likely to kill again' isn't the only metric we are going for here. Some people like to assuage their own conscience by believing in rehabilitation only, but prison sentences are actually for more than that. They exist to punish as well, because otherwise the victims feel no sense of actual justice - the victim didn't matter, the only real problem here is that we now have someone who might kill again, so let's fix that and then set him on his way. The length of this sentence is absolutely a cultural thing - perhaps some would feel that 7 years before unsupervised weekends is a fitting punishment. I can guarantee you that most Americans do not - if you want to see a rapid increase in vigilantism in the U.S., try reduced sentences for things like murder. Oh, and I would fully expect to have the court system hit me the harshest penalty they could - they hate vigilantism. But that's irrelevant to the decision that got me there.
Zigurd 13y ago
10 years might be reasonable if they actually bought, took delivery of, and fenced $10M in goods. That doesn't seem plausible.
g8oz 13y ago
Since we're offering arbitrary opinions I'll say that I think 10 years is a typical draconian example of U.S justice.
qwerta 13y ago
I have not followed this, but I would ask where $1M comes from, and if was actually involved in spending it. Quote from wiki about previous 2006 cause: Charges of 2.5 million dollars in damages was assessed based on $500 per credit card, for each of the 5,000 credit card numbers in Hammond's possession, despite the fact that no money had been spent
kelvin0 13y ago
He should have stolen a few billion dollars, and worked as a trader for HFT firm. He would have been promoted to a better paying job, instead of going to prison. Lack of vision I guess ...
wehadfun 13y ago
Considering that there are people serving life sentences for stealing $200 shoes. 10 yeas for $700K seems low.

billmalarky 13y ago

Over a million dollars in credit card fraud? 10 years sounds reasonable for something like that.

angersock 13y ago
Million dollars? As opposed to the billions lost in 2008, and the people rewarded with bailouts for their fraud? Pshyeah, hokay. Justice is truly being served here.
lowkeykiwi 13y ago
He didn't steal any money. He stole a crap load of information and credit card numbers were in there. They've extrapolated to a million dollars by adding all the credit limits together.

gngeal 13y ago

10 years doesn't strike me as unreasonable. ...while in Norway, you typically only get the maximum 21 years of imprisonment for multiple murders. And even that is apparently with the possibility of an early release after 14 years and unsupervised weekend parole after 7 years. And even with murder on your hands, they just might send you off to Bastøy to rehabilitate yourself properly. And somehow, the crime rate in Norway is still much lower, as are the reoffending rates. I just wonder, what comes next in the US, two years for littering, perhaps?

pessimizer 13y ago
Life sentences for repeat offenders caught shoplifting food are last decade's news.
VladRussian2 13y ago
>I just wonder, what comes next in the US, two years for littering, perhaps? well, theoretically you can get up to 1 year in many states, though i suspect usually it is much-much less harsh than that. http://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resources/states-with-littering-penalties.aspx http://www.ncsl.org/research/environment-and-natural-resourc...
mseidl 13y ago
What is the actual re-offense rate? I've been curious about this
cobrausn 13y ago
You cannot just take a system that works some place in the world and transplant it to another, completely devoid of any cultural context associated with it. What works for Norway would probably work really well if applied to most middle-class Americans. I seriously doubt we would see much success with a system like that applied across the board - there are too many other problems keeping our recidivism rate up, such as lack of support after jail, the lucrative nature of the drug trade, the way we structure our prisons to support gang mentalities, the lack of opportunities for convicted felons, etc etc. Since we're being honest here, if someone murdered someone close to me and then got unsupervised weekend parole after 7 years, they'd be dead in an alley their first weekend out. Maybe Norweigans are very different, culturally. Maybe I'm just a vengeful asshole who should just deal with it - but I doubt I'm alone over here. But this could also just be a reaction to violent crime - I don't feel as though most non-violent crime deserves harsh sentences. Hell, I'd settle for large fines in most cases.
- dmix 13y ago
  > What works for Norway would probably work really well if applied to most middle-class Americans. I seriously doubt we would see much success with a system like that applied across the board This is why the federated approach to governing was a big part of the American founding fathers literature (focusing on state-level power), which they viewed as a counter-point to the negative side-effects of centralized Monarchy systems in Europe. The American government has been reversing it's course - centralizing law (and law enforcement) to a national level - over the last century. Making experimentation with new systems and adaptation to better systems much more difficult.
- cgag 13y ago
  And how many years do you think you would deserve for killing him in an alley? How much less likely to kill again would you be after 10 years in prison vs 5/15/20?
  - cobrausn 13y ago
    'Less likely to kill again' isn't the only metric we are going for here. Some people like to assuage their own conscience by believing in rehabilitation only, but prison sentences are actually for more than that. They exist to punish as well, because otherwise the victims feel no sense of actual justice - the victim didn't matter, the only real problem here is that we now have someone who might kill again, so let's fix that and then set him on his way. The length of this sentence is absolutely a cultural thing - perhaps some would feel that 7 years before unsupervised weekends is a fitting punishment. I can guarantee you that most Americans do not - if you want to see a rapid increase in vigilantism in the U.S., try reduced sentences for things like murder. Oh, and I would fully expect to have the court system hit me the harshest penalty they could - they hate vigilantism. But that's irrelevant to the decision that got me there.

Zigurd 13y ago

10 years might be reasonable if they actually bought, took delivery of, and fenced $10M in goods. That doesn't seem plausible.

g8oz 13y ago

Since we're offering arbitrary opinions I'll say that I think 10 years is a typical draconian example of U.S justice.

qwerta 13y ago

I have not followed this, but I would ask where $1M comes from, and if was actually involved in spending it. Quote from wiki about previous 2006 cause: Charges of 2.5 million dollars in damages was assessed based on $500 per credit card, for each of the 5,000 credit card numbers in Hammond's possession, despite the fact that no money had been spent

kelvin0 13y ago

He should have stolen a few billion dollars, and worked as a trader for HFT firm. He would have been promoted to a better paying job, instead of going to prison. Lack of vision I guess ...

wehadfun 13y ago

Considering that there are people serving life sentences for stealing $200 shoes. 10 yeas for $700K seems low.