4 ms·

You missed an option. Maintain your work-life boundaries, tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting

by MBlume 13y ago

You missed an option. Maintain your work-life boundaries, tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. I'm pretty sure David's arguing we should do that. ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful framing to have alongside "work-life balance"

RBerenguel 13y ago
There's another missing option, which is your boss makes you get it done whatever the cost and your boss is the one telling his boss next time do things with time (like in R. Hamming's You and Your Research talk)
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
untog 13y ago
tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. Well, I think the actual answer here is that your boss doesn't ask you to do things like this in the first place. When he or she asks you to you're going to be hard-pressed to say no.
- MBlume 13y ago
  That depends entirely on your confidence in your job security/your ability to find another job.
eholder 13y ago
So what has that got to do with the advertising campaign and calling it a shame and dystopian? Technology is an enabler. If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work. If you don't want to work, the technology does not hold a knife to your throat and force you to work. This is coming from someone who refuses to take a smartphone from work because it raises expectations about answering phone calls and emails over evenings and holidays. I do appreciate VPN though, because it means I can leave early on Friday evening if I have something fun to do, and catch up on the work on Sunday night. And that's why DHH argument comes across as so silly, because it is dystopian not to allow technology that allows me to time shift my work. By DHH's same metric, the following are dystopian because they enable you to work outside your office: Remote desktop, VPN, Google Apps, SaaS offerings, web based tools, smartphones with work email. Google even has a similar pitch for their Google apps: >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office >Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using.
- runjake 13y ago
  Perhaps because history has shown advertising to be an effective tool for shifting perceptions and turning previously unacceptable things into the expected norm. Ads like these can have a funny effect, such as making the idea of working during your child's recital or soccer game okay. Notice the specific example Microsoft provides, where the child is about to score a goal while the parent is turned away while on his cell phone (presumably doing "work"). This is ghastly to me.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
rcoder 13y ago
This is exactly the position I would take. However, I have little doubt of my ability to find another job quickly (and the resources to weather a period of unemployment fairly easily) so doing something that puts my job at risk in service of my principles is a relatively easy stance for me to take. For those who have less-portable skills, or are in a more competitive labor market, telling your boss to go to hell is a much more dubious choice.
JumpCrisscross 13y ago
Given that the task is creating a "weekly metrics spreadsheet," something the boss had the time to plan for, I agree with you. But I remember my younger years very clearly, when something that sat on your director's desk for a week would plop down on yours at 6PM with a next-day deadline. Balking is a less attractive long-term proposition than grinding for a while. At that point, having the mobility options presented in the advert could be attractive. At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, ex ante.
- malyk 13y ago
  "At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, ex ante." You're just reinforcing the culture that it's ok for these things to steal you life from you. - Outside of a young startup you should be paying someone to monitor/fix your servers overnight as their job. - It's very very rare that a deal shows up that can't wait until morning and by handling it right away you are telling the client that you'll drop everything to deal with them...which isn't a good or sustainable practice. - What could you possibly do at 10pm one night when a client declares bankruptcy? Deal with it in the morning. By not declaring all these situations unworthy of your consideration/time ahead of time you are saying to everyone that it's okay to interrupt you at any time for any reason...fuck whatever else you are doing at the time. Such a shitty deal.
  - rayiner 13y ago
    If you're in a product-driven business, then the idea of working during appetizers is pretty horrific. If you're in a client driven business, it's just what clients demand, and if you don't give it to them they'll find someone else who will. That said, there is a flip side to the coin. In a client-driven business, you tend to have more flexibility when something isn't on fire. I used to work at a law firm and now I work for a judge. I liked my work-life balance substantially more at the firm. Before, if the baby had a rough night, I'd just sleep late and roll in at 10. Not so now. Uncle Sam expects me to be at my desk by 8:30 sharp. Before, if I wasn't busy I'd take a long lunch with my wife. Now, I've got 1 hour for lunch, minus 10 minutes to get through security. I don't take work home anymore, but I also don't get to go home when I don't have work. So I guess I don't find that Microsoft ad as troubling as David does. To me it doesn't signify filling all the crevices of my life with work, but rather having the flexibility to do my work when I want to and need to.
leknarf 13y ago
Freelancers and consultants have one more option: offer the boss two choices: (1) do the work during regular business hours, or (2) do the work now for twice your normal rate. Actually, in-house employees have this option too, it's just less socially acceptable to ask for overtime pay in many organizations. Sometimes business emergencies do just pop up, but it's surprising how quickly an emergency dissipates as soon as there's an extra cost associated with solving it (or not surprising, depending on how jaded you are). Assigning explicit costs to emergency work is an easy way to make a team more efficient.
res0nat0r 13y ago
DHH's argument has nothing to do with ranting on Microsoft then, he should be yelling at the companies that Microsoft is creating Office 365 for.
gaius 13y ago
I have a saying "It's on-call, not beck-and-call".
lsc 13y ago
>ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful framing to have alongside "work-life balance" When I hear an employer talk about 'work-life balance' I hear "we expect you to be available all the time, but you can take comp-time in a less formal way when we don't need you." I think that is the standard interpretation these days. "Work-life boundaries" sounds like something different entirely.

by MBlume 13y ago

RBerenguel 13y ago

There's another missing option, which is your boss makes you get it done whatever the cost and your boss is the one telling his boss next time do things with time (like in R. Hamming's You and Your Research talk)

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

untog 13y ago

tell your boss's boss you're sorry, but you have plans, and that he'll have a better chance of getting things like that from you with more lead time. Well, I think the actual answer here is that your boss doesn't ask you to do things like this in the first place. When he or she asks you to you're going to be hard-pressed to say no.

MBlume 13y ago
That depends entirely on your confidence in your job security/your ability to find another job.

eholder 13y ago

So what has that got to do with the advertising campaign and calling it a shame and dystopian? Technology is an enabler. If you want to work, the advertised technology enables you to work. If you don't want to work, the technology does not hold a knife to your throat and force you to work. This is coming from someone who refuses to take a smartphone from work because it raises expectations about answering phone calls and emails over evenings and holidays. I do appreciate VPN though, because it means I can leave early on Friday evening if I have something fun to do, and catch up on the work on Sunday night. And that's why DHH argument comes across as so silly, because it is dystopian not to allow technology that allows me to time shift my work. By DHH's same metric, the following are dystopian because they enable you to work outside your office: Remote desktop, VPN, Google Apps, SaaS offerings, web based tools, smartphones with work email. Google even has a similar pitch for their Google apps: >Need to attend a meeting from your kid’s soccer game? >Access your work from any device with a web browser – your computer, phone or tablet – and stay productive even when you’re away from the office >Google Apps makes it easy to stay connected to projects you’re working on and the people you work with, no matter where you are or what device you’re using.

runjake 13y ago
Perhaps because history has shown advertising to be an effective tool for shifting perceptions and turning previously unacceptable things into the expected norm. Ads like these can have a funny effect, such as making the idea of working during your child's recital or soccer game okay. Notice the specific example Microsoft provides, where the child is about to score a goal while the parent is turned away while on his cell phone (presumably doing "work"). This is ghastly to me.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

rcoder 13y ago

This is exactly the position I would take. However, I have little doubt of my ability to find another job quickly (and the resources to weather a period of unemployment fairly easily) so doing something that puts my job at risk in service of my principles is a relatively easy stance for me to take. For those who have less-portable skills, or are in a more competitive labor market, telling your boss to go to hell is a much more dubious choice.

JumpCrisscross 13y ago

Given that the task is creating a "weekly metrics spreadsheet," something the boss had the time to plan for, I agree with you. But I remember my younger years very clearly, when something that sat on your director's desk for a week would plop down on yours at 6PM with a next-day deadline. Balking is a less attractive long-term proposition than grinding for a while. At that point, having the mobility options presented in the advert could be attractive. At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, ex ante.

malyk 13y ago
"At more senior levels, shit happens - servers blow up, deals come out of nowhere, and your top client with millions of dollars in arrears declares bankruptcy. It's generally unreasonable to declare all those situations unworthy of your consideration, let alone time, ex ante." You're just reinforcing the culture that it's ok for these things to steal you life from you. - Outside of a young startup you should be paying someone to monitor/fix your servers overnight as their job. - It's very very rare that a deal shows up that can't wait until morning and by handling it right away you are telling the client that you'll drop everything to deal with them...which isn't a good or sustainable practice. - What could you possibly do at 10pm one night when a client declares bankruptcy? Deal with it in the morning. By not declaring all these situations unworthy of your consideration/time ahead of time you are saying to everyone that it's okay to interrupt you at any time for any reason...fuck whatever else you are doing at the time. Such a shitty deal.
- rayiner 13y ago
  If you're in a product-driven business, then the idea of working during appetizers is pretty horrific. If you're in a client driven business, it's just what clients demand, and if you don't give it to them they'll find someone else who will. That said, there is a flip side to the coin. In a client-driven business, you tend to have more flexibility when something isn't on fire. I used to work at a law firm and now I work for a judge. I liked my work-life balance substantially more at the firm. Before, if the baby had a rough night, I'd just sleep late and roll in at 10. Not so now. Uncle Sam expects me to be at my desk by 8:30 sharp. Before, if I wasn't busy I'd take a long lunch with my wife. Now, I've got 1 hour for lunch, minus 10 minutes to get through security. I don't take work home anymore, but I also don't get to go home when I don't have work. So I guess I don't find that Microsoft ad as troubling as David does. To me it doesn't signify filling all the crevices of my life with work, but rather having the flexibility to do my work when I want to and need to.

leknarf 13y ago

Freelancers and consultants have one more option: offer the boss two choices: (1) do the work during regular business hours, or (2) do the work now for twice your normal rate. Actually, in-house employees have this option too, it's just less socially acceptable to ask for overtime pay in many organizations. Sometimes business emergencies do just pop up, but it's surprising how quickly an emergency dissipates as soon as there's an extra cost associated with solving it (or not surprising, depending on how jaded you are). Assigning explicit costs to emergency work is an easy way to make a team more efficient.

res0nat0r 13y ago

DHH's argument has nothing to do with ranting on Microsoft then, he should be yelling at the companies that Microsoft is creating Office 365 for.

gaius 13y ago

I have a saying "It's on-call, not beck-and-call".

lsc 13y ago

>ETA: Actually I really think the idea of "work-life boundaries" is a useful framing to have alongside "work-life balance" When I hear an employer talk about 'work-life balance' I hear "we expect you to be available all the time, but you can take comp-time in a less formal way when we don't need you." I think that is the standard interpretation these days. "Work-life boundaries" sounds like something different entirely.