6 ms·

As Oracle axes support for GlassFish, MySQL users might want to pay attention

33 points by tanglesome 13y ago

g4m8i7 13y ago
A lot of the big distros have transitioned to MariaDB already (https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-mariadb/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-mariad...). Debian probably will soon as well, which will trickle down into Ubuntu probably. I think there's plenty of room outside Oracle if they were to ever shut down MySQL. I moved to MariaDB, and it really was a drop-in replacement.
- tvon 13y ago
  Compatibility document for the curious: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility...
  - Shish2k 13y ago
    TL;DR: It's 100% binary compatible, but PHP manages to have problems anyway /facepalm
    - g4m8i7 13y ago
      I think it's only a problem if you're using mysql_ instead of mysqli_. https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ Since mysql_ is being deprecated soon (so they say, maybe PHP6 haha), it'd be good to migrate to mysqli_ anyway.
      - generalpf 13y ago
        Shouldn't everyone be on PDO by now? If you're still on mysql[i]_ you must be used to having problems.
        g4m8i7 13y ago
        Probably. I'm a pretty poor developer. I'm a sysadmin who sometimes writes PHP apps for work. So, I'll look into PDO. :D
        generalpf 13y ago
        Definitely recommended! It will also help you when you swap out MySQL for something else later on... little to no rework!
        lmm 13y ago
        If you've got the time, try writing one in python and see what you think.
        g4m8i7 13y ago
        lmm: (For some reason your post doesn't have a reply link) These are usually webapps for department-specific needs, and I generally find PHP to be easier. I have a few python things that I use on the backend, as well as a plethora of bash scripts. But, I admit to knowing PHP more than Python. (I'm in a smallish company, so I end up wearing a lot of hats) generalpf: I will do so! Do you have any go-to references that you prefer? Or shall I just dig through the PHP docs?
        tvon 13y ago
        > For some reason your post doesn't have a reply link I think that for a comment at some level of nesting N, the ability to replay is delayed by Y seconds. IIRC this is to prevent stupid back-and-forth arguments.
        generalpf 13y ago
        It's really quite simple, read this and get to work! It also explains the 'why'. http://wiki.hashphp.org/PDO_Tutorial_for_MySQL_Developers http://wiki.hashphp.org/PDO_Tutorial_for_MySQL_Developers
        Demiurge 13y ago
        I maintain an early 2000's php website that is pretty functional and has a lot of features, but uses the classic spaghetti code. I can't exactly just switch to PDO without considerable time investment, and otherwise things are working just fine. I don't think this is an uncommon scenario.
    - runamok 13y ago
      More details: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ It's apparently not an issue with 5.4+ and has several fairly simple workarounds.
rwmj 13y ago
Why? MySQL has a well-maintained drop-in replacement outside of Oracle control (MariaDB). It's even mentioned in the article. (And no one's ever heard of Glassfish, probably the reason why Oracle are dropping it)
- tvon 13y ago
  Agreed, every MySQL project I'm on is actually a MariaDB project. While I prefer Postgres and have arguments to present to clients who rely on MySQL, a fear of Oracle is not one of those arguments because I just don't think it matters what happens to MySQL proper.
PaulHoule 13y ago
I think the difference is that Glassfish is a piece of garbage. Among the few people who have heard of it it has a reputation of being the worst application server you can possibly use.
- cbp 13y ago
  There are a couple applications running on top of glassfish at $DAYJOB but I can't say I've ever been involved with them. Care to elaborate a little on why it's so bad? I saw the admin console once and it seemed to run like a slug but it did seem to include a lot of features.
  - theandrewbailey 13y ago
    The admin console is easily the slowest part of Glassfish, but it lets you configure everything that, if you were using Tomcat, would need you to play around with XML.
- strictfp 13y ago
  I haven't used it but there is NO WAY that it is worse than WebSphere. In any case, my firm belief is that the whole concept of app servers is flawed. Libs are so much better than frameworks, and app servers are just horribly clunky frameworks, which take away as much control as possible from the dev. Taking control away from devs is a really backwards way of thinking of development as grunt work, which has been proven time and time again that it isn't. Death to all app servers, I say!
  - kaffeinecoma 13y ago
    I actually passed on some repeat client work when they insisted on using WebSphere. My initial project for them was an eternal struggle to get basic things (XML parsing, Hibernate, CDI, etc) working in their environment because specific versions of these things were already included in the app server, and always ended up conflicting with libs we needed to include for our own app. I remember it distinctly as one of those times where I just felt helpless to make anything work.
ancarda 13y ago
I think that would be sufficient motivation to get me to use PostgreSQL. I doubt I'll go running out to buy an Oracle database when there's sufficient alternatives (including MariaDB).
pron 13y ago
The concerns over MySQL might be justified, but have little to do with GlassFish. GlassFish has never been a popular open source project like Tomcat, Jetty or JBoss, and probably not as commercially successful as Oracle's own WebLogic, or IBM's WebSphere, or JBoss. There was really no good reason to keep it alive, other than as the JEE reference implementation, a role which, as I understand, it will continue to serve. Also, the compatibility between different Java EE application servers is far greater than between different DBs, and migrating from one to the other is usually very simple. I do hope (and would like to assume) that only the work on the GlassFish server will be reduced, while popular subprojects like Jersey[1] will continue as before. [1]: https://jersey.java.net/ https://jersey.java.net/
- batbomb 13y ago
  Jersey is an integral part of WebLogic as well, so development will assuredly continue. From the jersey mailing list: > Jersey remains the JAX-RS implementation in WebLogic as well as JAX-RS RI in GlassFish. The decision to not provide a commercial GF 4.x offering is orthogonal to Jersey and JAX-RS development. > ...and now, just to be safe, I should probably add the standard Oracle disclamer :) Here it goes: > The preceding is intended to outline our general product direction. It is intended for information purposes only, and may not be incorporated into any contract. It is not a commitment to deliver any material, code, or functionality, and should not be relied upon in making purchasing decisions. The development, release, and timing of any features or functionality described for Oracle’s products remains at the sole discretion of Oracle. > Marek
Yhippa 13y ago
This kind of makes sense; they have WebLogic to sell to enterprise customers.
debacle 13y ago
I switched over to MariaDB on my most recent Linux install, and honestly have no idea that the database is different. Moved my Windows install from MySQL to MariaDB as well. Was a bit more complicated, but not by much.
thrillgore 13y ago
The way they closed down OpenSolaris told me all I needed to know about Oracle's plans for every other OSS project. We did use GlassFish with JRuby on a project early on in my career, that's about it.
gmjoe 13y ago
I wouldn't worry too much, since MariaDB is out there. I'd love to make the switch from MySQL, except Amazon RDS doesn't support MariaDB yet. But since they just added PostgreSQL, maybe there's hope? Presumably MariaDB support would be vastly easier, as easy as a new version of MySQL?
leef 13y ago
Pure FUD. Oracle has owned Innodb since 2005 and now that they own the whole of MySQL impressive releases are coming at a steady clip. To date, Oracle has been a better steward of MySQL than Sun was.
j_baker 13y ago
I think what's more likely is that MySQL goes the way of Hudson/Jenkins. Oracle strangles the open source community and pushes people to use a fork of the original software. Oracle's in the database business, and I just don't see any reason for them to kill off one of the most popular databases in the world. More likely is that they make it serve their purposes to the exclusion of the open source community's.

33 points by tanglesome 13y ago

A lot of the big distros have transitioned to MariaDB already (https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-mariadb/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-mariad...). Debian probably will soon as well, which will trickle down into Ubuntu probably. I think there's plenty of room outside Oracle if they were to ever shut down MySQL. I moved to MariaDB, and it really was a drop-in replacement.

tvon 13y ago
Compatibility document for the curious: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-versus-mysql-compatibility...
- Shish2k 13y ago
  TL;DR: It's 100% binary compatible, but PHP manages to have problems anyway /facepalm
  - g4m8i7 13y ago
    I think it's only a problem if you're using mysql_ instead of mysqli_. https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ Since mysql_ is being deprecated soon (so they say, maybe PHP6 haha), it'd be good to migrate to mysqli_ anyway.
    - generalpf 13y ago
      Shouldn't everyone be on PDO by now? If you're still on mysql[i]_ you must be used to having problems.
      - g4m8i7 13y ago
        Probably. I'm a pretty poor developer. I'm a sysadmin who sometimes writes PHP apps for work. So, I'll look into PDO. :D
        generalpf 13y ago
        Definitely recommended! It will also help you when you swap out MySQL for something else later on... little to no rework!
        lmm 13y ago
        If you've got the time, try writing one in python and see what you think.
        g4m8i7 13y ago
        lmm: (For some reason your post doesn't have a reply link) These are usually webapps for department-specific needs, and I generally find PHP to be easier. I have a few python things that I use on the backend, as well as a plethora of bash scripts. But, I admit to knowing PHP more than Python. (I'm in a smallish company, so I end up wearing a lot of hats) generalpf: I will do so! Do you have any go-to references that you prefer? Or shall I just dig through the PHP docs?
        tvon 13y ago
        > For some reason your post doesn't have a reply link I think that for a comment at some level of nesting N, the ability to replay is delayed by Y seconds. IIRC this is to prevent stupid back-and-forth arguments.
        generalpf 13y ago
        It's really quite simple, read this and get to work! It also explains the 'why'. http://wiki.hashphp.org/PDO_Tutorial_for_MySQL_Developers http://wiki.hashphp.org/PDO_Tutorial_for_MySQL_Developers
      - Demiurge 13y ago
        I maintain an early 2000's php website that is pretty functional and has a lot of features, but uses the classic spaghetti code. I can't exactly just switch to PDO without considerable time investment, and otherwise things are working just fine. I don't think this is an uncommon scenario.
  - runamok 13y ago
    More details: https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ https://mariadb.com/kb/en/installation-issues-with-php5/ It's apparently not an issue with 5.4+ and has several fairly simple workarounds.

rwmj 13y ago

Why? MySQL has a well-maintained drop-in replacement outside of Oracle control (MariaDB). It's even mentioned in the article. (And no one's ever heard of Glassfish, probably the reason why Oracle are dropping it)

tvon 13y ago
Agreed, every MySQL project I'm on is actually a MariaDB project. While I prefer Postgres and have arguments to present to clients who rely on MySQL, a fear of Oracle is not one of those arguments because I just don't think it matters what happens to MySQL proper.

PaulHoule 13y ago

I think the difference is that Glassfish is a piece of garbage. Among the few people who have heard of it it has a reputation of being the worst application server you can possibly use.

cbp 13y ago
There are a couple applications running on top of glassfish at $DAYJOB but I can't say I've ever been involved with them. Care to elaborate a little on why it's so bad? I saw the admin console once and it seemed to run like a slug but it did seem to include a lot of features.
- theandrewbailey 13y ago
  The admin console is easily the slowest part of Glassfish, but it lets you configure everything that, if you were using Tomcat, would need you to play around with XML.
strictfp 13y ago
I haven't used it but there is NO WAY that it is worse than WebSphere. In any case, my firm belief is that the whole concept of app servers is flawed. Libs are so much better than frameworks, and app servers are just horribly clunky frameworks, which take away as much control as possible from the dev. Taking control away from devs is a really backwards way of thinking of development as grunt work, which has been proven time and time again that it isn't. Death to all app servers, I say!
- kaffeinecoma 13y ago
  I actually passed on some repeat client work when they insisted on using WebSphere. My initial project for them was an eternal struggle to get basic things (XML parsing, Hibernate, CDI, etc) working in their environment because specific versions of these things were already included in the app server, and always ended up conflicting with libs we needed to include for our own app. I remember it distinctly as one of those times where I just felt helpless to make anything work.

ancarda 13y ago

I think that would be sufficient motivation to get me to use PostgreSQL. I doubt I'll go running out to buy an Oracle database when there's sufficient alternatives (including MariaDB).

pron 13y ago

The concerns over MySQL might be justified, but have little to do with GlassFish. GlassFish has never been a popular open source project like Tomcat, Jetty or JBoss, and probably not as commercially successful as Oracle's own WebLogic, or IBM's WebSphere, or JBoss. There was really no good reason to keep it alive, other than as the JEE reference implementation, a role which, as I understand, it will continue to serve. Also, the compatibility between different Java EE application servers is far greater than between different DBs, and migrating from one to the other is usually very simple. I do hope (and would like to assume) that only the work on the GlassFish server will be reduced, while popular subprojects like Jersey[1] will continue as before. [1]: https://jersey.java.net/ https://jersey.java.net/

batbomb 13y ago
Jersey is an integral part of WebLogic as well, so development will assuredly continue. From the jersey mailing list: > Jersey remains the JAX-RS implementation in WebLogic as well as JAX-RS RI in GlassFish. The decision to not provide a commercial GF 4.x offering is orthogonal to Jersey and JAX-RS development. > ...and now, just to be safe, I should probably add the standard Oracle disclamer :) Here it goes: > The preceding is intended to outline our general product direction. It is intended for information purposes only, and may not be incorporated into any contract. It is not a commitment to deliver any material, code, or functionality, and should not be relied upon in making purchasing decisions. The development, release, and timing of any features or functionality described for Oracle’s products remains at the sole discretion of Oracle. > Marek

Yhippa 13y ago

This kind of makes sense; they have WebLogic to sell to enterprise customers.

debacle 13y ago

I switched over to MariaDB on my most recent Linux install, and honestly have no idea that the database is different. Moved my Windows install from MySQL to MariaDB as well. Was a bit more complicated, but not by much.

thrillgore 13y ago

The way they closed down OpenSolaris told me all I needed to know about Oracle's plans for every other OSS project. We did use GlassFish with JRuby on a project early on in my career, that's about it.

gmjoe 13y ago

I wouldn't worry too much, since MariaDB is out there. I'd love to make the switch from MySQL, except Amazon RDS doesn't support MariaDB yet. But since they just added PostgreSQL, maybe there's hope? Presumably MariaDB support would be vastly easier, as easy as a new version of MySQL?

leef 13y ago

Pure FUD. Oracle has owned Innodb since 2005 and now that they own the whole of MySQL impressive releases are coming at a steady clip. To date, Oracle has been a better steward of MySQL than Sun was.

j_baker 13y ago

I think what's more likely is that MySQL goes the way of Hudson/Jenkins. Oracle strangles the open source community and pushes people to use a fork of the original software. Oracle's in the database business, and I just don't see any reason for them to kill off one of the most popular databases in the world. More likely is that they make it serve their purposes to the exclusion of the open source community's.