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"OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. But I do find it funny that they don't think that Github shoul

by seivan 13y ago

"OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. But I do find it funny that they don't think that Github should be used as a resumé but their "conferencing", tweets, books about diversifying and podcasts should do. Talkers or Makers? I write OSS on my free time because I feel like other alternatives might not be good enough. I spend a couple of hours in the morning, weekends and etc. It's hard and time consuming. I can take two days if just figuring out what the selector should be called or argument names. Right now I am getting paid for OSS, but I even spend my free time on it because I'd like to make sure it comes out good. It's very slow and time consuming, and sometimes keeps me up at night, but I LIKE IT. And I like acknowledgment to it. These sorta articles invalidate what I make just because I FEEL like making them. Not sure what to feel about that. I have friends who make stuff to Go-lang because they want to learn the language and make stuff that doesn't exist. These articles invalidates their passion. And saying bullshit like LGBT or other genders are actively being excluded... well it makes me hard to take you seriously. I'm not white, and I am part of LGBT.

alfiejohn_ 13y ago
> These sorta articles invalidate what I make just because I FEEL like making them. Not sure what to feel about that. Maybe it's because I'm getting old, but I've learned something... stop caring what others are saying and doing. If you feel like making shit, then make it.
- seivan 13y ago
  I generally don't give a shit. But I do get concerned when others do to crap that might affect me.
CmonDev 13y ago
""OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say." I hope one day we will be able to distil the ultimate rule: "being smart and proactive is discriminatory".
jballanc 13y ago
The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Also, I'd challenge you to find where the article says or even implies that you shouldn't be making stuff because you FEEL like it. Quite the opposite, in fact. You should be making stuff because you feel like it and not because you have some expectation of getting a better offer or being able to show off your GitHub profile at your next interview. As for the white, male bias...not sure what to tell you. It's real. The statistics don't lie. I'm glad that you have had success as a non-white member of the LGBT community, but as the saying goes: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
- seivan 13y ago
  > The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Actually, Ashe has that on the Hire Me Page. >As for the white, male bias...not sure what to tell you. It's real. The statistics don't lie. I'm glad that you have had success as a non-white member of the LGBT community, but as the saying goes: the plural of anecdote is not data. I understand this is a fact, but how this can be used against Github as a resumé or against OSS on your free time, I have a hard time seeing that. It comes off as incredibly stupid.
  - gopher1 13y ago
    There's a difference between a potential candidate putting their Github profile on their resume and having hiring managers filter out all candidates who do not have a profile.
    - fecak 13y ago
      I think this is the key question. Using the absence of a GitHub profile to dismiss candidates is one thing, but using the presence of a strong GitHub as a positive is a different story.
bengillies 13y ago
> "OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward people who are either paid to do it at their current job, or who have few enough prior commitments in the rest of their life to be able to afford to do it outside of work. I'm not sure whether it biases towards white men or not, but I'm pretty sure it biases towards younger people and against people who are in enterprisey companies (or who work on private contracts).
- aestra 13y ago
  As a condition of my employment, I had to sign a contract with my former employer that basically said since I was a software engineer with them, they owned all the software I wrote, even if I wrote it outside of my work hours. This obviously prevented me from working on any OSS. Also please read my above comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740089 The article links to another article about why it favors white men.
  - csixty4 13y ago
    > As a condition of my employment, I had to sign a contract with my former employer that basically said since I was a software engineer with them, they owned all the software I wrote, even if I wrote it outside of my work hours. I had an employer spring an intellectual property agreement just like that on me. I'd been working there for six months already, and had to threaten to walk out unless they specifically put in an exception for open source work in mine.

by seivan 13y ago

alfiejohn_ 13y ago

> These sorta articles invalidate what I make just because I FEEL like making them. Not sure what to feel about that. Maybe it's because I'm getting old, but I've learned something... stop caring what others are saying and doing. If you feel like making shit, then make it.

seivan 13y ago
I generally don't give a shit. But I do get concerned when others do to crap that might affect me.

CmonDev 13y ago

""OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say." I hope one day we will be able to distil the ultimate rule: "being smart and proactive is discriminatory".

jballanc 13y ago

The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Also, I'd challenge you to find where the article says or even implies that you shouldn't be making stuff because you FEEL like it. Quite the opposite, in fact. You should be making stuff because you feel like it and not because you have some expectation of getting a better offer or being able to show off your GitHub profile at your next interview. As for the white, male bias...not sure what to tell you. It's real. The statistics don't lie. I'm glad that you have had success as a non-white member of the LGBT community, but as the saying goes: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".

seivan 13y ago
> The article does not say that conference talks, tweets, books, etc. should be used for hiring decisions and only GitHub should not. It says (right there at the end), that hiring is hard and any shortcut to try and get around that fact is wrong. It just so happens that "don't send us your resume, tell us your GitHub username" just happens to be the shortcut of the moment. Actually, Ashe has that on the Hire Me Page. >As for the white, male bias...not sure what to tell you. It's real. The statistics don't lie. I'm glad that you have had success as a non-white member of the LGBT community, but as the saying goes: the plural of anecdote is not data. I understand this is a fact, but how this can be used against Github as a resumé or against OSS on your free time, I have a hard time seeing that. It comes off as incredibly stupid.
- gopher1 13y ago
  There's a difference between a potential candidate putting their Github profile on their resume and having hiring managers filter out all candidates who do not have a profile.
  - fecak 13y ago
    I think this is the key question. Using the absence of a GitHub profile to dismiss candidates is one thing, but using the presence of a strong GitHub as a positive is a different story.

bengillies 13y ago

> "OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward white men"... not sure what to say. OSS as a hiring filter biases your selection process toward people who are either paid to do it at their current job, or who have few enough prior commitments in the rest of their life to be able to afford to do it outside of work. I'm not sure whether it biases towards white men or not, but I'm pretty sure it biases towards younger people and against people who are in enterprisey companies (or who work on private contracts).

aestra 13y ago
As a condition of my employment, I had to sign a contract with my former employer that basically said since I was a software engineer with them, they owned all the software I wrote, even if I wrote it outside of my work hours. This obviously prevented me from working on any OSS. Also please read my above comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740089 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6740089 The article links to another article about why it favors white men.
- csixty4 13y ago
  > As a condition of my employment, I had to sign a contract with my former employer that basically said since I was a software engineer with them, they owned all the software I wrote, even if I wrote it outside of my work hours. I had an employer spring an intellectual property agreement just like that on me. I'd been working there for six months already, and had to threaten to walk out unless they specifically put in an exception for open source work in mine.