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Do attempted murder charges typically have a less extreme penalty than actual murder charges? It is my impression that is the case, but I can't find much that

by jlgreco 13y ago

Do attempted murder charges typically have a less extreme penalty than actual murder charges? It is my impression that is the case, but I can't find much that actually supports that notion. This is a concern to me because it doesn't make sense to me that somebody who tries to kill somebody but does a poor job of it should be punished less harshly than somebody who tries to kill somebody and manages to pull it off. Nobody should get off lighter just because their victim was particularly hearty. Of course on the opposite end of the spectrum, if I try to break the speed limit with my beat up '65 Volkswagen beetle, but fail to do so, obviously I don't deserve a speeding ticket. Attempted speeding isn't a crime, not all "attempted [whatevers]" need to be punished.

dragonwriter 13y ago
> Do attempted murder charges typically have a less extreme penalty than actual murder charges? Yes. > This is a concern to me because it doesn't make sense to me that somebody who tries to kill somebody but does a poor job of it should be punished less harshly than somebody who tries to kill somebody and manages to pull it off. Typically, both the degree of "wrongness" of the act and the degree of harm inflicted by it are factors in setting criminal punishments. While attempted murder might be as morally wrong as actual murder, the harm inflicted is different.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  What if we view sentencing not as punishment or revenge, but rather as something that we do for the safety of society? It isn't clear to me that an attempted murderer is less dangerous to society than a successful murderer (unless we assume that all failed murder attempts failed due to incompetence, but I don't think that is safe to say), surely they should both be kept off the streets for the same amount of time.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > What if we view sentencing not as punishment or revenge, but rather as something that we do for the safety of society? It could be argued that someone with both demonstrated bad intent and demonstrated capacity is still more dangerous than someone with equally bad intent that fails to demonstrate the capacity to successfully carry that intent into fruition.
Strilanc 13y ago
> This is a concern to me because it doesn't make sense to me that somebody who tries to kill somebody but does a poor job of it should be punished less harshly than somebody who tries to kill somebody and manages to pull it off. Your friend calls you. The police have discovered you tried to hire a hitman to kill your wife. You despair, but then realize you won't get punished any worse for killing her before they show up...
- jlgreco 13y ago
  Is hiring a hitman who successfully kills somebody the same crime as successfully killing somebody yourself? I understand not increasing the punishment of certain types of crimes so that we don't create incentives to escalate (for example, don't give the death penalty for armed robberies, because then all armed robberies would turn into murders as well), but in the case of attempted murder, the person doing it has already committed themselves to killing somebody. There aren't really many ways that can escalate. If they tried to kill somebody, realized that they failed, and had the opportunity to try again, I don't think there is much incentive currently for them to not try again.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > Is hiring a hitman who successfully kills somebody the same crime as successfully killing somebody yourself? Yes. (Well, hiring the hitman may itself be other crimes, but once you've done it, its the same set of crimes for "hiring the hitman to kill somebody" + "hitman kills them" and "hiring the hitman to kill somebody" + "you kill them yourself". For you, at least. Less crimes for the hitman, though.)
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Hmm, that seems strange, but on the other hand felony murder makes sense to me so I'm not sure why I should find this strange. My intuition on what punishments should be dolled out for extreme crimes is probably a little wonky.

by jlgreco 13y ago

dragonwriter 13y ago

> Do attempted murder charges typically have a less extreme penalty than actual murder charges? Yes. > This is a concern to me because it doesn't make sense to me that somebody who tries to kill somebody but does a poor job of it should be punished less harshly than somebody who tries to kill somebody and manages to pull it off. Typically, both the degree of "wrongness" of the act and the degree of harm inflicted by it are factors in setting criminal punishments. While attempted murder might be as morally wrong as actual murder, the harm inflicted is different.

jlgreco 13y ago
What if we view sentencing not as punishment or revenge, but rather as something that we do for the safety of society? It isn't clear to me that an attempted murderer is less dangerous to society than a successful murderer (unless we assume that all failed murder attempts failed due to incompetence, but I don't think that is safe to say), surely they should both be kept off the streets for the same amount of time.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > What if we view sentencing not as punishment or revenge, but rather as something that we do for the safety of society? It could be argued that someone with both demonstrated bad intent and demonstrated capacity is still more dangerous than someone with equally bad intent that fails to demonstrate the capacity to successfully carry that intent into fruition.

Strilanc 13y ago

> This is a concern to me because it doesn't make sense to me that somebody who tries to kill somebody but does a poor job of it should be punished less harshly than somebody who tries to kill somebody and manages to pull it off. Your friend calls you. The police have discovered you tried to hire a hitman to kill your wife. You despair, but then realize you won't get punished any worse for killing her before they show up...

jlgreco 13y ago
Is hiring a hitman who successfully kills somebody the same crime as successfully killing somebody yourself? I understand not increasing the punishment of certain types of crimes so that we don't create incentives to escalate (for example, don't give the death penalty for armed robberies, because then all armed robberies would turn into murders as well), but in the case of attempted murder, the person doing it has already committed themselves to killing somebody. There aren't really many ways that can escalate. If they tried to kill somebody, realized that they failed, and had the opportunity to try again, I don't think there is much incentive currently for them to not try again.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > Is hiring a hitman who successfully kills somebody the same crime as successfully killing somebody yourself? Yes. (Well, hiring the hitman may itself be other crimes, but once you've done it, its the same set of crimes for "hiring the hitman to kill somebody" + "hitman kills them" and "hiring the hitman to kill somebody" + "you kill them yourself". For you, at least. Less crimes for the hitman, though.)
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Hmm, that seems strange, but on the other hand felony murder makes sense to me so I'm not sure why I should find this strange. My intuition on what punishments should be dolled out for extreme crimes is probably a little wonky.