5 ms·

Actually this is very much illegal. You cannot charge someone for a product and then not deliver it. Kickstarter doesn't charge you for a product, you pledge or

Actually this is very much illegal. You cannot charge someone for a product and then not deliver it. Kickstarter doesn't charge you for a product, you pledge or donate to a project on Kickstarter and if it's successful, you get the item(s) for the level you pledged to for free.

alexcroox 13y ago
I wonder if they get round that law because they don't ask for your shipping address until they ship the product meaning it's never a "properly completed order"
Semaphor 13y ago
So there is a part where the US has stronger consumer protection laws than Germany? Interesting. Besides that, why are digital goods pre-orders seemingly allowed?
- andyhmltn 13y ago
  If you're referring to stuff like iTunes then pre-orders, you aren't actually charged until the day it releases
  - Semaphor 13y ago
    Steam pre-orders was mainly what I was referring to. I've seen a lot of other pre-orders but I'm not sure they were U.S. based.
- InclinedPlane 13y ago
  If something has a well-defined shipping date then pre-orders are allowed. This is one reason why you can buy tickets to events well in advance.
  - Semaphor 13y ago
    Ah, thanks that explains it. Different in Europe though.
ozi 13y ago
Wrong. Per the FTC, all you need is a "reasonable basis" for an express or implied shipping date. http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-m...
jrochkind1 13y ago
Well, of course if you charge someone for a product and don't ship it, then you owe them their money back. I'm not sure there's anything illegal about it if you give them their money back -- I'm pretty sure I've tried to buy something from a seller on Amazon, been charged, it turned out they were unable to fulfill, they refunded. It happens. Now, if you run out of money and go out of business without giving everyone their money back -- that's still not exactly 'illegal', it's not in and of itself fraud. Companies go out of business with creditors all the time, almost any time anyone does go out of business they owe someone something (I mean, in a sense, that's what makes you go out of business!)
- chacha102 13y ago
  Most credit card processors will have problems with you if you don't ship a product within a certain time frame (3-4 days) within charging a credit card. I believe its part of the TOS. And consumers are different than creditors. There are different laws that protect each.
pbreit 13y ago
It's not illegal but it might run afoul of your merchant account terms.

alexcroox 13y ago

I wonder if they get round that law because they don't ask for your shipping address until they ship the product meaning it's never a "properly completed order"

Semaphor 13y ago

So there is a part where the US has stronger consumer protection laws than Germany? Interesting. Besides that, why are digital goods pre-orders seemingly allowed?

andyhmltn 13y ago
If you're referring to stuff like iTunes then pre-orders, you aren't actually charged until the day it releases
- Semaphor 13y ago
  Steam pre-orders was mainly what I was referring to. I've seen a lot of other pre-orders but I'm not sure they were U.S. based.
InclinedPlane 13y ago
If something has a well-defined shipping date then pre-orders are allowed. This is one reason why you can buy tickets to events well in advance.
- Semaphor 13y ago
  Ah, thanks that explains it. Different in Europe though.

ozi 13y ago

Wrong. Per the FTC, all you need is a "reasonable basis" for an express or implied shipping date. http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-m...

jrochkind1 13y ago

Well, of course if you charge someone for a product and don't ship it, then you owe them their money back. I'm not sure there's anything illegal about it if you give them their money back -- I'm pretty sure I've tried to buy something from a seller on Amazon, been charged, it turned out they were unable to fulfill, they refunded. It happens. Now, if you run out of money and go out of business without giving everyone their money back -- that's still not exactly 'illegal', it's not in and of itself fraud. Companies go out of business with creditors all the time, almost any time anyone does go out of business they owe someone something (I mean, in a sense, that's what makes you go out of business!)

chacha102 13y ago
Most credit card processors will have problems with you if you don't ship a product within a certain time frame (3-4 days) within charging a credit card. I believe its part of the TOS. And consumers are different than creditors. There are different laws that protect each.

pbreit 13y ago

It's not illegal but it might run afoul of your merchant account terms.