4 ms·

Hrm. So on the one hand, your personal beliefs prevent you from using a computer that is completely controled and locked down, but because everyone else is doi

by tsally 17y ago

Hrm. So on the one hand, your personal beliefs prevent you from using a computer that is completely controled and locked down, but because everyone else is doing it for phones, it's ok then? I'm not criticizing Jeff for buying an iPhone, but let's be very clear on the price of the 'hacker mentality' in this case. :-) An important lesson here for free software advocates as well. Only now are free software operating systems catching up in usability and user friendliness. Let's not make the same mistake on mobile devices as well.

compay 17y ago
Android is quite a ways along already. Though it's not as polished as the iPhone's OS it's much closer than, say, Linux desktops are to OS X. In fact I just ditched my first generation iPhone for a G1 running Android. While I admit the iPhone is a better device, the G1 with Android is good enough and much more freely hackable.
- newsio 17y ago
  Good point. Atwood's essay about the proprietary nature of the industry neglects Android. It's not even mentioned once.
  - tdavis 17y ago
    Or Openmoko which is even more neglected.
    - peregrine 17y ago
      Openmoko is neglected by the market as a whole. I like what they do but the platform has been outclassed by Android.
      - tdavis 17y ago
        AFAIK, nobody yet supplies an Android handset designed for hacking itself. I think they're targeting slightly different markets (which do overlap in some areas).
    - ram1024 17y ago
      android is going to bury the iphone. if you haven't seen the HTC hero demo, it's what android looks like with a little polish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU why apple won't be able to compete: flash - apple is not going to let unchecked content onto its device backgrounding - apple refuses to let multiple applications run at the same time customization - you get it the way apple wants you to get it app store - dictatorial approval process, it's the only way to get apps on your phone one device - whatever apple gives you, you better like it. want a qwerty keyboard? tough luck. and that's just SOME of the limitations... [ps] the "Sense UI" running on HTC hero will be on the winmo devices as well like Touch HD and TouchPro 2. so it's not just android that is going to kick apple's ass.
- stalf 17y ago
  Actualy, Android's interface on the recently released HTC Hero is far better than iPhone's. Android's the future.
  - jcl 17y ago
    How is the Android interface on the Hero different from the baseline Android interface everywhere else?
    - w1ntermute 17y ago
      I'm no expert on the topic, but I believe he's referring to "the new HTC Sense widget-based interface" (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-details-begin-leaking-from-htcs-own-website/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-details-begin-le...).
    - stalf 17y ago
      I'm supposing Android's interface is customizable, so HTC managed to build a whole new experience on it. Check this: http://www.htc.com/www/product/hero/overview.html http://www.htc.com/www/product/hero/overview.html
  - herval 17y ago
    if they can cope with the fragmentation (which is already happening - with only TWO devices on market)... it's funny to remember, though, that Symbian was the future when they announced it was open sourced. And then Maemo became the future. Then OpenMoko...
    - nailer 17y ago
      Symbian was never the future, it was an old product that had been OSSd. Maemo was never on a phone. OpenMoko was always a joke. Android is the only modern, out of the box, touch based platform not designed to pus hthe agenda of aparticular handset carrier.
      - there 17y ago
mixmax 17y ago
The bad usability and user friendliness in free software is a product of the process, namely that anyone can change anything, and that there isn't one master designer. The reason Apple's products work so well is that there's a strict hierarchy, and only one person gets to decide how the product looks. This won't change.
- stalf 17y ago
  It is changing. Canonical's CEO (Mark Shuttleworth) said their aim is to deploy interfaces as good as Apple's. What do you say about projects like GnomeDo with great interface?
  - igorgue 17y ago
    I totally agree and we can name a lot of apps... people, use the software before criticizing! IMHO yes, there are some OS X apps that are very good in usability but there are a lot of exceptions: Banshee > iTunes Gnome-do > Quicksilver (even though this is not from Apple) Nautilus > Finder (yes this is very true) I'm not even mentioning the apps that just don't exist in OS X: a real multi-desktop, Tomboy (even though there is a port), a real app manager.
igorgue 17y ago
And here we go again criticizing the Free Software (or Open Source) model, without any valid reason... remember that the iPhone is highly based on OSS, you just make a lot of non-sense. Also probably you haven't tried the latest distro versions of Linux or an Android phone or WebOS. Then you say: "Why do you call me fanboy?" read your comment and you'll know.
- mcav 17y ago
  > remember that the iPhone is highly based on OSS Based on, yes. But the stuff that makes the iPhone an iPhone -- Cocoa, multitouch, etc. -- is far from open.
  - nailer 17y ago
    Multitouch doesn't really make the iPhone since it stopped being unique to the iPhone, eg, when the Pre and Hero were announced. That said, both the Pre and Hero's implementations are also proprietary.

by tsally 17y ago

compay 17y ago

Android is quite a ways along already. Though it's not as polished as the iPhone's OS it's much closer than, say, Linux desktops are to OS X. In fact I just ditched my first generation iPhone for a G1 running Android. While I admit the iPhone is a better device, the G1 with Android is good enough and much more freely hackable.

newsio 17y ago
Good point. Atwood's essay about the proprietary nature of the industry neglects Android. It's not even mentioned once.
- tdavis 17y ago
  Or Openmoko which is even more neglected.
  - peregrine 17y ago
    Openmoko is neglected by the market as a whole. I like what they do but the platform has been outclassed by Android.
    - tdavis 17y ago
      AFAIK, nobody yet supplies an Android handset designed for hacking itself. I think they're targeting slightly different markets (which do overlap in some areas).
  - ram1024 17y ago
    android is going to bury the iphone. if you haven't seen the HTC hero demo, it's what android looks like with a little polish. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKTDSfbcbBU why apple won't be able to compete: flash - apple is not going to let unchecked content onto its device backgrounding - apple refuses to let multiple applications run at the same time customization - you get it the way apple wants you to get it app store - dictatorial approval process, it's the only way to get apps on your phone one device - whatever apple gives you, you better like it. want a qwerty keyboard? tough luck. and that's just SOME of the limitations... [ps] the "Sense UI" running on HTC hero will be on the winmo devices as well like Touch HD and TouchPro 2. so it's not just android that is going to kick apple's ass.
stalf 17y ago
Actualy, Android's interface on the recently released HTC Hero is far better than iPhone's. Android's the future.
- jcl 17y ago
  How is the Android interface on the Hero different from the baseline Android interface everywhere else?
  - w1ntermute 17y ago
    I'm no expert on the topic, but I believe he's referring to "the new HTC Sense widget-based interface" (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-details-begin-leaking-from-htcs-own-website/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-details-begin-le...).
  - stalf 17y ago
    I'm supposing Android's interface is customizable, so HTC managed to build a whole new experience on it. Check this: http://www.htc.com/www/product/hero/overview.html http://www.htc.com/www/product/hero/overview.html
- herval 17y ago
  if they can cope with the fragmentation (which is already happening - with only TWO devices on market)... it's funny to remember, though, that Symbian was the future when they announced it was open sourced. And then Maemo became the future. Then OpenMoko...
  - nailer 17y ago
    Symbian was never the future, it was an old product that had been OSSd. Maemo was never on a phone. OpenMoko was always a joke. Android is the only modern, out of the box, touch based platform not designed to pus hthe agenda of aparticular handset carrier.
    - there 17y ago

mixmax 17y ago

The bad usability and user friendliness in free software is a product of the process, namely that anyone can change anything, and that there isn't one master designer. The reason Apple's products work so well is that there's a strict hierarchy, and only one person gets to decide how the product looks. This won't change.

stalf 17y ago
It is changing. Canonical's CEO (Mark Shuttleworth) said their aim is to deploy interfaces as good as Apple's. What do you say about projects like GnomeDo with great interface?
- igorgue 17y ago
  I totally agree and we can name a lot of apps... people, use the software before criticizing! IMHO yes, there are some OS X apps that are very good in usability but there are a lot of exceptions: Banshee > iTunes Gnome-do > Quicksilver (even though this is not from Apple) Nautilus > Finder (yes this is very true) I'm not even mentioning the apps that just don't exist in OS X: a real multi-desktop, Tomboy (even though there is a port), a real app manager.

igorgue 17y ago

And here we go again criticizing the Free Software (or Open Source) model, without any valid reason... remember that the iPhone is highly based on OSS, you just make a lot of non-sense. Also probably you haven't tried the latest distro versions of Linux or an Android phone or WebOS. Then you say: "Why do you call me fanboy?" read your comment and you'll know.

mcav 17y ago
> remember that the iPhone is highly based on OSS Based on, yes. But the stuff that makes the iPhone an iPhone -- Cocoa, multitouch, etc. -- is far from open.
- nailer 17y ago
  Multitouch doesn't really make the iPhone since it stopped being unique to the iPhone, eg, when the Pre and Hero were announced. That said, both the Pre and Hero's implementations are also proprietary.