4 ms·

I assume that the Chip-and-pin system isnt standard in the US like it is in the UK. Can a similar technology be applied to chips?

bouk 13y ago
From the FAQ: Q. Does Coin support chip and pin (EMV)? A. Coin is currently designed for the U.S. market and does not support chip and pin (EMV), however, future generations of the device will include EMV.
- rkangel 13y ago
  How on earth is that going to work? Theoretically at least, you can't clone an EMV card. That's kind of the point.
  - RandallBrown 13y ago
    Maybe they'll work with the banks to get the information needed to create the EMV card?
    - PeterisP 13y ago
      Why would a bank allow that? It creates all kinds of liability issues, hurts the issuing bank's branding, and there's no big source of fees to allow Coin to simply buy cooperation from them. Heck, they're running a kickstarter for funding, while even dreaming about being a card issuer would require to start with posting multimillion security deposits.
  - Nursie 13y ago
    Theoretically, you can put a large number of payment applications on a single EMV chip already, and a transaction will either use defaults or present you with a choice. Unfortunately cross-bank and cross-scheme cooperation has never been there to the extent that this has been possible so far.
    - seszett 13y ago
      With my new card I always get a dialogue when I pay where I have to choose between something like "direct payment" or "pay in three installments". I suppose that's the kind of applications you're talking about? I didn't know this was possible before (and I don't remember my bank ever telling me about it, not that I really care, but it's a useless step slowing me down). I see it on every terminal I use here in France, so it seems to somewhat work already here.
      - Nursie 13y ago
        That's a weird one! I've been out of the payments game a few years now (going back in on Monday though) but in EMV speak an 'application' is usually something like Visa, or Mastercard or something along those lines. Some cards I looked at in the past had a few on them for local schemes, for instance we had "Switch" cards here in the UK that were the equivalent of "Maestro" in Europe, but were different enough that a lot of UK debit cards had both applications on them. If "pay in three installments" is a sort-of credit facility provided by your card issuer(?) then I suppose it could be coded as an on-card application. In fact if you wanted to give your customers that choice on every single transaction I can't think of a better way. Would get damn annoying...
vklj 13y ago
No, because chips, by design, can't be copied by the user. They are roughly small computers which encrypt messages with a secret key, but the key itself is never let out outside the chip. You would need some cooperation from the card issuer to clone the card, or some sophisticated technical equipment to open up the chip and read it.
iLoch 13y ago
I was trying to look into this as well. Apparently the chips cannot be read from in the same way unless you authorize it. I don't know how that authorization process works, but I'm guessing it's possible. I'll be looking out for Coin in the future when they introduce EMV support.
- PeterisP 13y ago
  You shouldn't be able to read EMV chips with any authorisation - it's supposed to be safe from bank employees who make the actual cards, so they can't clone your card before giving it to you. In the EMV process the private key should be unique to the card (if you make a replacement card with the same number, it's a different key); the private key shouldn't exist anywhere outside the chip after the card is made; and there aren't supposed to be any ways to read the key. Well, cutting the chip and scanning with a electron microscope works, but it's impractical. I'm not saying that there aren't any bugs in the implementation, but I'm quite sure that there are no known bugs that allow simply to get the key; even full control of the HSM which holds the bank's private key should allow you only to make/sign new fake cards, but not recreate an existing card.
  - iLoch 13y ago
    Guess I have to stick to my shitty baby blue card then. Yes my bank IS Toys 'R' Us.

bouk 13y ago

From the FAQ: Q. Does Coin support chip and pin (EMV)? A. Coin is currently designed for the U.S. market and does not support chip and pin (EMV), however, future generations of the device will include EMV.

rkangel 13y ago
How on earth is that going to work? Theoretically at least, you can't clone an EMV card. That's kind of the point.
- RandallBrown 13y ago
  Maybe they'll work with the banks to get the information needed to create the EMV card?
  - PeterisP 13y ago
    Why would a bank allow that? It creates all kinds of liability issues, hurts the issuing bank's branding, and there's no big source of fees to allow Coin to simply buy cooperation from them. Heck, they're running a kickstarter for funding, while even dreaming about being a card issuer would require to start with posting multimillion security deposits.
- Nursie 13y ago
  Theoretically, you can put a large number of payment applications on a single EMV chip already, and a transaction will either use defaults or present you with a choice. Unfortunately cross-bank and cross-scheme cooperation has never been there to the extent that this has been possible so far.
  - seszett 13y ago
    With my new card I always get a dialogue when I pay where I have to choose between something like "direct payment" or "pay in three installments". I suppose that's the kind of applications you're talking about? I didn't know this was possible before (and I don't remember my bank ever telling me about it, not that I really care, but it's a useless step slowing me down). I see it on every terminal I use here in France, so it seems to somewhat work already here.
    - Nursie 13y ago
      That's a weird one! I've been out of the payments game a few years now (going back in on Monday though) but in EMV speak an 'application' is usually something like Visa, or Mastercard or something along those lines. Some cards I looked at in the past had a few on them for local schemes, for instance we had "Switch" cards here in the UK that were the equivalent of "Maestro" in Europe, but were different enough that a lot of UK debit cards had both applications on them. If "pay in three installments" is a sort-of credit facility provided by your card issuer(?) then I suppose it could be coded as an on-card application. In fact if you wanted to give your customers that choice on every single transaction I can't think of a better way. Would get damn annoying...

vklj 13y ago

No, because chips, by design, can't be copied by the user. They are roughly small computers which encrypt messages with a secret key, but the key itself is never let out outside the chip. You would need some cooperation from the card issuer to clone the card, or some sophisticated technical equipment to open up the chip and read it.

iLoch 13y ago

I was trying to look into this as well. Apparently the chips cannot be read from in the same way unless you authorize it. I don't know how that authorization process works, but I'm guessing it's possible. I'll be looking out for Coin in the future when they introduce EMV support.

PeterisP 13y ago
You shouldn't be able to read EMV chips with any authorisation - it's supposed to be safe from bank employees who make the actual cards, so they can't clone your card before giving it to you. In the EMV process the private key should be unique to the card (if you make a replacement card with the same number, it's a different key); the private key shouldn't exist anywhere outside the chip after the card is made; and there aren't supposed to be any ways to read the key. Well, cutting the chip and scanning with a electron microscope works, but it's impractical. I'm not saying that there aren't any bugs in the implementation, but I'm quite sure that there are no known bugs that allow simply to get the key; even full control of the HSM which holds the bank's private key should allow you only to make/sign new fake cards, but not recreate an existing card.
- iLoch 13y ago
  Guess I have to stick to my shitty baby blue card then. Yes my bank IS Toys 'R' Us.