4 ms·

Eight years for the process. That legal systems seems thoroughly broken.

by Nitramp 13y ago

DannyBee 13y ago
(Sadly, i can't comment on the decision itself, but i can comment on the meta-arguments here :P) Eight years for large, insanely complex litigation involving hundreds of thousands of pages of documents does not seem that thoroughly broken. Also, judges have a large number of these complex cases on their dockets at once, because the US in general thinks lawsuits are great way to resolve normal disputes. This is why most courts order mediation/settlement talks etc in these complex cases (and there was a settlement, it just wasn't approved). TL;DR If you want serious efficiency, asking it from a bunch of overworked judges trying to oversee a large number of complex cases seems a bit much. They do what they can, and try to get folks to resolve out of court, but often parties just want their day in court, and that takes time.
- Nitramp 13y ago
  I think you just listed a whole bunch of reasons why that legal system is broken. It's IMHO quite questionable whether such a law suit must be insanely complex and involve hundreds of thousands of pages of documents. And then subsequently, why judges have to be overworked, etc.
  - fpgeek 13y ago
    A lot of the complexity comes from this being the first case to deal with this kind of issue. That means a lot needed to be sorted out along the way (even such simple things as which legal issue should be considered first). Now that this ruling has been made (and assuming it holds up on appeal), the next case along the same lines will be much simpler. Some of those cases might not happen at all (since the expected result will now be clear).
  - DannyBee 13y ago
    "It's IMHO quite questionable whether such a law suit must be insanely complex and involve hundreds of thousands of pages of documents." There is essentially some minimum amount of documentation necessary to resolve a lawsuit. For something that involves a class of many thousands of plaintiffs, works, and claims, needing essentially 10 pages per person (or whatever) is just not a lot. I mean, do you expect Google search to be 50 lines of code? Also note that part of the purpose of discovery is to get everyone's cards on the table. You are often required to produce any possibly relevant info, which in this day and age, includes large volumes of emails. The whole goal here is that there should be no surprises, and hopefully, the dispute should be resolvable without going to trial once everyone's hand is shown. Judges are overworked because the judiciary is underfunded. We are too busy making useless tanks to add to the collection we have in the desert.

Eight years for the process. That legal systems seems thoroughly broken.

by Nitramp 13y ago

Eight years for the process. That legal systems seems thoroughly broken.

(Sadly, i can't comment on the decision itself, but i can comment on the meta-arguments here :P) Eight years for large, insanely complex litigation involving hundreds of thousands of pages of documents does not seem that thoroughly broken. Also, judges have a large number of these complex cases on their dockets at once, because the US in general thinks lawsuits are great way to resolve normal disputes. This is why most courts order mediation/settlement talks etc in these complex cases (and there was a settlement, it just wasn't approved). TL;DR If you want serious efficiency, asking it from a bunch of overworked judges trying to oversee a large number of complex cases seems a bit much. They do what they can, and try to get folks to resolve out of court, but often parties just want their day in court, and that takes time.

Nitramp 13y ago
I think you just listed a whole bunch of reasons why that legal system is broken. It's IMHO quite questionable whether such a law suit must be insanely complex and involve hundreds of thousands of pages of documents. And then subsequently, why judges have to be overworked, etc.
- fpgeek 13y ago
  A lot of the complexity comes from this being the first case to deal with this kind of issue. That means a lot needed to be sorted out along the way (even such simple things as which legal issue should be considered first). Now that this ruling has been made (and assuming it holds up on appeal), the next case along the same lines will be much simpler. Some of those cases might not happen at all (since the expected result will now be clear).
- DannyBee 13y ago
  "It's IMHO quite questionable whether such a law suit must be insanely complex and involve hundreds of thousands of pages of documents." There is essentially some minimum amount of documentation necessary to resolve a lawsuit. For something that involves a class of many thousands of plaintiffs, works, and claims, needing essentially 10 pages per person (or whatever) is just not a lot. I mean, do you expect Google search to be 50 lines of code? Also note that part of the purpose of discovery is to get everyone's cards on the table. You are often required to produce any possibly relevant info, which in this day and age, includes large volumes of emails. The whole goal here is that there should be no surprises, and hopefully, the dispute should be resolvable without going to trial once everyone's hand is shown. Judges are overworked because the judiciary is underfunded. We are too busy making useless tanks to add to the collection we have in the desert.