3 ms·

Buying a book is now a big red flag? So to be truly safe I guess the government should know all the books we each buy and those we borrow from a library. They

Buying a book is now a big red flag? So to be truly safe I guess the government should know all the books we each buy and those we borrow from a library. They should also track what everyone reads online.

greenyoda 13y ago
I seem to remember that the Patriot Act allows the government to ask libraries for patrons' records and forbids the library from disclosing that it happened. Librarians and civil rights activists made a big stink about it at the time, but I guess people have forgotten about it by now and it has become the "new normal". Shortly after 9/11, the NY Public Library implemented their own photo ID cards that you were required to show before they'd bring you any reference material (this is for material that can only be used in the library, not checked out, so there's no real reason why they'd need to track who is looking at it). And it would be very easy for the government to find out all the books I ever bought from Amazon and everything I read online. I wonder sometimes whether Amazon has some kind of PRISM-like arrangement with the NSA.
Bahamut 13y ago
The contents of said book is a red flag if you want a security clearance - it says you are willing to cheat to get a job doing governmental work.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  > willing to cheat Defeating a voodoo ritual is cheating? Isn't it more like protecting yourself from false accusations?
  - Bahamut 13y ago
    Regardless of your irrelevant implicit commentary on lie detectors, my point still stands. Nobody is forcing you to do a polygraph test when you're applying for a security clearance - that choice is yours alone to make.
    - Zigurd 13y ago
      So only people willing to subject themselves to a goon who could, at random, accuse them of lying with no basis in fact should get security clearances?
- Silhouette 13y ago
  it says you are willing to cheat to get a job doing governmental work. No, it doesn't. That's the point. When you start assuming that mere interest in a subject or an attempt to research it necessarily implies any particular moral position on that subject or future action, you're walking a very dark path. I have read about, and in some cases seen videos of, things that I find horrifying. That doesn't mean I condone the actions involved, and it certainly doesn't mean I have any desire to emulate them. What next, I'm obviously interested in cracking secure networks because I studied mathematics and understand how a bunch of exploits work? I'm a potential terrorist because I studied chemistry and know many ways to make something go bang? I'm a Nazi sympathizer because I have studied European history and seen some video footage of horrible things? The logical conclusion if we follow your line of reasoning isn't even thoughtcrime, it's penalising people on the mere suspicion of thoughtcrime, and that suspicion doesn't even need to have any rational or objective justification. You might as well throw any pretence of justice out the window by then. And the danger of that is very much greater than the danger of a few curious people reading a book about something that might or might not work anyway.

greenyoda 13y ago

I seem to remember that the Patriot Act allows the government to ask libraries for patrons' records and forbids the library from disclosing that it happened. Librarians and civil rights activists made a big stink about it at the time, but I guess people have forgotten about it by now and it has become the "new normal". Shortly after 9/11, the NY Public Library implemented their own photo ID cards that you were required to show before they'd bring you any reference material (this is for material that can only be used in the library, not checked out, so there's no real reason why they'd need to track who is looking at it). And it would be very easy for the government to find out all the books I ever bought from Amazon and everything I read online. I wonder sometimes whether Amazon has some kind of PRISM-like arrangement with the NSA.

Bahamut 13y ago

The contents of said book is a red flag if you want a security clearance - it says you are willing to cheat to get a job doing governmental work.

Zigurd 13y ago
> willing to cheat Defeating a voodoo ritual is cheating? Isn't it more like protecting yourself from false accusations?
- Bahamut 13y ago
  Regardless of your irrelevant implicit commentary on lie detectors, my point still stands. Nobody is forcing you to do a polygraph test when you're applying for a security clearance - that choice is yours alone to make.
  - Zigurd 13y ago
    So only people willing to subject themselves to a goon who could, at random, accuse them of lying with no basis in fact should get security clearances?
Silhouette 13y ago
it says you are willing to cheat to get a job doing governmental work. No, it doesn't. That's the point. When you start assuming that mere interest in a subject or an attempt to research it necessarily implies any particular moral position on that subject or future action, you're walking a very dark path. I have read about, and in some cases seen videos of, things that I find horrifying. That doesn't mean I condone the actions involved, and it certainly doesn't mean I have any desire to emulate them. What next, I'm obviously interested in cracking secure networks because I studied mathematics and understand how a bunch of exploits work? I'm a potential terrorist because I studied chemistry and know many ways to make something go bang? I'm a Nazi sympathizer because I have studied European history and seen some video footage of horrible things? The logical conclusion if we follow your line of reasoning isn't even thoughtcrime, it's penalising people on the mere suspicion of thoughtcrime, and that suspicion doesn't even need to have any rational or objective justification. You might as well throw any pretence of justice out the window by then. And the danger of that is very much greater than the danger of a few curious people reading a book about something that might or might not work anyway.