5 ms·

The biggest announcement for me is that the Dart VM will be embedded inside Chrome: https://twitter.com/dart_lang/status/400915745413939200 https://twitter.com/

The biggest announcement for me is that the Dart VM will be embedded inside Chrome: https://twitter.com/dart_lang/status/400915745413939200 https://twitter.com/dart_lang/status/400915745413939200

robmcm 13y ago
I thought this was always the plan, which would make Chrome a must of people using Dart apps. Question is if other browsers would include the DartVM (I guess Opera will) or if they will rely on the JS version.
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Yes, this was spoken at Google IO, in a talk where it was mentioned plans about merging v8 and dartvm. Sometimes it pays off to watch the sessions. :)
  - robmcm 13y ago
    But only Opera and Chrome use v8 as of now.
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      Yeah, but I was speaking about developer sessions in general, regardless of the technology. A good developer should try to get as much information as possible about his/her tooling. I remember the days where all I could learn about computers was trial and error, helped by what the local library could offer, if anything.
- threeseed 13y ago
  I can't imagine Mozilla or Apple adopting Dart unless it is ratified as some standard where they have the ability to contribute to its future roadmap. Apple in particular was burned by Flash and I can't imagine being willing to go down that path again.
DoubleMalt 13y ago
This has sadly the potential of making Chrome second coming of IE6, with enterprises locked in a system that is too successful to have the incentive to evolve. As long as the Dart specification is not governed gy a body encompassing all major browser vendors, this is a very dangerous development (And yes, I know that being governed by a standards body seriously hampers the evolution of a standard, but everything is a tradeoff...)
- mythz 13y ago
  Such uninformed comparisons are getting extremely tiresome and I consider to be the enemy of progress. There is nothing more that the Dart Team can do to make it anymore open - they're doing as much as is possible. This is nothing like IE, which is actually proprietary and closed-source. In contrast, there is absolutely nothing about Dart that's proprietary. Dart is 100% open source, including patents grants, it's completely developed in the open and for the last 2 years has seen steadily progress with feedback from the public mailing list. It's actually a goal for the project that everyone is able to freely use Dart in any capacity. Lars Bak already said that after 1.0 is shipped they're going to work on getting the language standardized. There is nothing legal or technical stopping other browser vendors using Dart, any hesitations are 100% political. Dart is finally the first real alternative where we may be able to progress beyond JavaScript, that as a core objective also compiles to first-class JavaScript, i.e. many features dismissed because it couldn't be efficiently transpiled to JS. I care about progress, the current state of web development is fragmented and broken, we need to be encouraging more initiatives like Dart that challenges the status-quo and is able to progress past the fragmented inconsistent mess we have to deal with now in trying to develop complex, rich, high-performance web apps.
  - DoubleMalt 13y ago
    The problem is that even if Dart is completely open and patent free (and I agree that there is a vast difference between Dart and ActiveX in this regard), if the other browser vendors like Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla don't pick it up, it will still be a walled garden, even if the wall is built by the others. Also Google has shown signs of embrace, extend extinguish when it comes to essential parts of Android, which makes me a bit wary. I would love nothing more that Dart superseding JS as the goto language (and compile target) for browser development, as it is doubtless a step forward. But there are pitalls hidden on the way there and the outcome is determined by the path we will take. Of course hesitations are political, because the outcome will be determined by political actions of everybody involved, Google, MS, Apple and Mozilla. Technical merits alone don't guarantee a happy outcome, sadly.
RossM 13y ago
I wonder if this means Dart will be available in Opera, since it's based on Chromium now.

The biggest announcement for me is that the Dart VM will be embedded inside Chrome: https://twitter.com/dart_lang/status/400915745413939200 https://twitter.com/dart_lang/status/400915745413939200

robmcm 13y ago

I thought this was always the plan, which would make Chrome a must of people using Dart apps. Question is if other browsers would include the DartVM (I guess Opera will) or if they will rely on the JS version.

pjmlp 13y ago
Yes, this was spoken at Google IO, in a talk where it was mentioned plans about merging v8 and dartvm. Sometimes it pays off to watch the sessions. :)
- robmcm 13y ago
  But only Opera and Chrome use v8 as of now.
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Yeah, but I was speaking about developer sessions in general, regardless of the technology. A good developer should try to get as much information as possible about his/her tooling. I remember the days where all I could learn about computers was trial and error, helped by what the local library could offer, if anything.
threeseed 13y ago
I can't imagine Mozilla or Apple adopting Dart unless it is ratified as some standard where they have the ability to contribute to its future roadmap. Apple in particular was burned by Flash and I can't imagine being willing to go down that path again.

DoubleMalt 13y ago

This has sadly the potential of making Chrome second coming of IE6, with enterprises locked in a system that is too successful to have the incentive to evolve. As long as the Dart specification is not governed gy a body encompassing all major browser vendors, this is a very dangerous development (And yes, I know that being governed by a standards body seriously hampers the evolution of a standard, but everything is a tradeoff...)

mythz 13y ago
Such uninformed comparisons are getting extremely tiresome and I consider to be the enemy of progress. There is nothing more that the Dart Team can do to make it anymore open - they're doing as much as is possible. This is nothing like IE, which is actually proprietary and closed-source. In contrast, there is absolutely nothing about Dart that's proprietary. Dart is 100% open source, including patents grants, it's completely developed in the open and for the last 2 years has seen steadily progress with feedback from the public mailing list. It's actually a goal for the project that everyone is able to freely use Dart in any capacity. Lars Bak already said that after 1.0 is shipped they're going to work on getting the language standardized. There is nothing legal or technical stopping other browser vendors using Dart, any hesitations are 100% political. Dart is finally the first real alternative where we may be able to progress beyond JavaScript, that as a core objective also compiles to first-class JavaScript, i.e. many features dismissed because it couldn't be efficiently transpiled to JS. I care about progress, the current state of web development is fragmented and broken, we need to be encouraging more initiatives like Dart that challenges the status-quo and is able to progress past the fragmented inconsistent mess we have to deal with now in trying to develop complex, rich, high-performance web apps.
- DoubleMalt 13y ago
  The problem is that even if Dart is completely open and patent free (and I agree that there is a vast difference between Dart and ActiveX in this regard), if the other browser vendors like Microsoft, Apple and Mozilla don't pick it up, it will still be a walled garden, even if the wall is built by the others. Also Google has shown signs of embrace, extend extinguish when it comes to essential parts of Android, which makes me a bit wary. I would love nothing more that Dart superseding JS as the goto language (and compile target) for browser development, as it is doubtless a step forward. But there are pitalls hidden on the way there and the outcome is determined by the path we will take. Of course hesitations are political, because the outcome will be determined by political actions of everybody involved, Google, MS, Apple and Mozilla. Technical merits alone don't guarantee a happy outcome, sadly.

RossM 13y ago

I wonder if this means Dart will be available in Opera, since it's based on Chromium now.