3 ms·

Still seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me. Especially since its from Google; as it is, it looks like the second coming of ActiveX to me.

by adamors 13y ago

WoodenChair 13y ago
It's a legitimate concern until you dig beneath the surface of the politics. The fact is that in the near future Chrome will not achieve IE 6 like market share and therefore Dart will primarily be used through Dart2JS. It's a legitimate fear for the future - but that's admitting then that Dart is a darn good step in the right direction and will see high adoption. At this time it's more of a straw man. Also Google has said they will submit Dart to a standards body. That was never going to happen with Active X. And of course, unlike ActiveX, Dart is open source - so if in a pinch Dart took over the world super rapidly and the other browsers had to incorporate it...
- robmcm 13y ago
  I think without Dart2JS this would be a non starter. I can't see Apple or Microsoft implementing a DartVM either an open source one or one of their own, remember the Flash Player was an open spec but no one wrote their own.
  - dgregd 13y ago
    > I can't see Apple or Microsoft implementing a DartVM ... That's the whole point of Dart. Apple and Microsoft are protecting their closed platforms. They are not interested in open platforms like Web. Microsoft improved IE JS engine after they lost significant market share. And please compare features of C# and ECMAScript. Google pushed the whole web platform forward. I don't want them to wait for Microsoft acceptance!
    - pjmlp 13y ago
      > Google pushed the whole web platform forward. Really? When do you expect other browser vendors to adopt DartVM and PNaCL? This is the second coming of IE, nothing else.
      - mythz 13y ago
        > This is the second coming of IE, nothing else. Completely Baseless, opinionated, inaccurate, hyperbolic, HN comment, check.
    - threeseed 13y ago
      This is all just nonsense. Apple helped pioneer a second wave of innovation in the web with their efforts on WebKit. And they are still actively working on it as well as being active members of WHATWG et al. Google is NOT pushing the whole web platform forward. They are pushing THEIR web platform forward. We saw it with SPDY and now seeing it again with Dart. Technologies developed in isolation that only see traction due to the popularity of Chrome.
      - robmcm 13y ago
        Apple pioneered webkit to kill flash, I don't think they are that bothered anymore and I expect we will see them drop off in terms of browser development and holding up standards. Sometimes the only way to push things forward it to do it in isolation, make leaps and bounds, and then present it as an open standard.

Still seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me. Especially since its from Google; as it is, it looks like the second coming of ActiveX to me.

by adamors 13y ago

Still seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me. Especially since its from Google; as it is, it looks like the second coming of ActiveX to me.

WoodenChair 13y ago

It's a legitimate concern until you dig beneath the surface of the politics. The fact is that in the near future Chrome will not achieve IE 6 like market share and therefore Dart will primarily be used through Dart2JS. It's a legitimate fear for the future - but that's admitting then that Dart is a darn good step in the right direction and will see high adoption. At this time it's more of a straw man. Also Google has said they will submit Dart to a standards body. That was never going to happen with Active X. And of course, unlike ActiveX, Dart is open source - so if in a pinch Dart took over the world super rapidly and the other browsers had to incorporate it...

robmcm 13y ago
I think without Dart2JS this would be a non starter. I can't see Apple or Microsoft implementing a DartVM either an open source one or one of their own, remember the Flash Player was an open spec but no one wrote their own.
- dgregd 13y ago
  > I can't see Apple or Microsoft implementing a DartVM ... That's the whole point of Dart. Apple and Microsoft are protecting their closed platforms. They are not interested in open platforms like Web. Microsoft improved IE JS engine after they lost significant market share. And please compare features of C# and ECMAScript. Google pushed the whole web platform forward. I don't want them to wait for Microsoft acceptance!
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    > Google pushed the whole web platform forward. Really? When do you expect other browser vendors to adopt DartVM and PNaCL? This is the second coming of IE, nothing else.
    - mythz 13y ago
      > This is the second coming of IE, nothing else. Completely Baseless, opinionated, inaccurate, hyperbolic, HN comment, check.
  - threeseed 13y ago
    This is all just nonsense. Apple helped pioneer a second wave of innovation in the web with their efforts on WebKit. And they are still actively working on it as well as being active members of WHATWG et al. Google is NOT pushing the whole web platform forward. They are pushing THEIR web platform forward. We saw it with SPDY and now seeing it again with Dart. Technologies developed in isolation that only see traction due to the popularity of Chrome.
    - robmcm 13y ago
      Apple pioneered webkit to kill flash, I don't think they are that bothered anymore and I expect we will see them drop off in terms of browser development and holding up standards. Sometimes the only way to push things forward it to do it in isolation, make leaps and bounds, and then present it as an open standard.