4 ms·

Prehistoric flute in Germany is oldest known

11 points by aswanson 17y ago

aswanson 17y ago
Harmonie erst. (Our german mates will have to let me know if I am anywhere near grammatical correctness).
- arrrg 17y ago
  That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Sorry.
  - aswanson 17y ago
    Ah, well. It was an attempt at saying "Harmony first." Verdamung babelfish.
    - eru 17y ago
      That would be: Harmonie zuerst. But "Harmonie" does not have the same (con-) notation in German as "harmony" has in English. And "Verdamung babelfish." could be taken that you wish babelfish would turn into a lady ("Dame"). ;o)
      - aswanson 17y ago
        Oh, thanks. I better quit while I'm ahead. During Oktoberfest I'll just keep my mouth shut (unless imbibing) :).
        eru 17y ago
        And remember to drink beer in Maßen not in Massen.
        aswanson 17y ago
        Alles klar, Herr Kommissar. Danke. :).
WilliamLP 17y ago
Geez, they don't even tell us what kind of scale it's tuned to?
- msluyter 17y ago
  They played a couple of recreated samples on NPR. One sounded roughly pentatonic to me; the other sounded... of indeterminate scale and/or out of tune. It's hard to say exactly how it would have sounded, because the flute allows a lot of room for bending the pitch based on things like embouchure and whatnot (I'm a former flutist). Check it out for yourself: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105823127 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1058231...
  - aoeu 17y ago
    It may simply be in a different temperament or just/pure intonation rather than out of tune. I'm rather curious if anyone can work it out. http://www.kylegann.com/microtonality.html http://www.kylegann.com/microtonality.html http://music.cwru.edu/duffin/ http://music.cwru.edu/duffin/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament
  - aoeu 17y ago
    msluyter, do you know what flutes (and other wind instruments) are generally tuned to these days? I noticed some of my sister's clarinet music books show different fingerings for sharps and flats so presumably an extended meantone? Ta :-)
    - vorador 17y ago
      Clarinets are in A or B bémol iirc.
    - msluyter 17y ago
      Modern flutes are all in C. Not sure what you mean by "extended meantone." Most wind instruments can have slightly different fingerings for the same note (more prevalent in clarinet than flute, actually). These may have slightly different intonation/sound. Perhaps that's what you're seeing?
staunch 17y ago
Makes me wonder how it was invented. Directly, or maybe there were some incremental steps? Would I have invented a flute?
tokenadult 17y ago
HN submission of link to New York Times article on same archeological find, with perhaps some different details: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=672935 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=672935

11 points by aswanson 17y ago

aswanson 17y ago

Harmonie erst. (Our german mates will have to let me know if I am anywhere near grammatical correctness).

arrrg 17y ago
That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Sorry.
- aswanson 17y ago
  Ah, well. It was an attempt at saying "Harmony first." Verdamung babelfish.
  - eru 17y ago
    That would be: Harmonie zuerst. But "Harmonie" does not have the same (con-) notation in German as "harmony" has in English. And "Verdamung babelfish." could be taken that you wish babelfish would turn into a lady ("Dame"). ;o)
    - aswanson 17y ago
      Oh, thanks. I better quit while I'm ahead. During Oktoberfest I'll just keep my mouth shut (unless imbibing) :).
      - eru 17y ago
        And remember to drink beer in Maßen not in Massen.
        aswanson 17y ago
        Alles klar, Herr Kommissar. Danke. :).

WilliamLP 17y ago

Geez, they don't even tell us what kind of scale it's tuned to?

msluyter 17y ago
They played a couple of recreated samples on NPR. One sounded roughly pentatonic to me; the other sounded... of indeterminate scale and/or out of tune. It's hard to say exactly how it would have sounded, because the flute allows a lot of room for bending the pitch based on things like embouchure and whatnot (I'm a former flutist). Check it out for yourself: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105823127 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1058231...
- aoeu 17y ago
  It may simply be in a different temperament or just/pure intonation rather than out of tune. I'm rather curious if anyone can work it out. http://www.kylegann.com/microtonality.html http://www.kylegann.com/microtonality.html http://music.cwru.edu/duffin/ http://music.cwru.edu/duffin/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_temperament
- aoeu 17y ago
  msluyter, do you know what flutes (and other wind instruments) are generally tuned to these days? I noticed some of my sister's clarinet music books show different fingerings for sharps and flats so presumably an extended meantone? Ta :-)
  - vorador 17y ago
    Clarinets are in A or B bémol iirc.
  - msluyter 17y ago
    Modern flutes are all in C. Not sure what you mean by "extended meantone." Most wind instruments can have slightly different fingerings for the same note (more prevalent in clarinet than flute, actually). These may have slightly different intonation/sound. Perhaps that's what you're seeing?

staunch 17y ago

Makes me wonder how it was invented. Directly, or maybe there were some incremental steps? Would I have invented a flute?

tokenadult 17y ago

HN submission of link to New York Times article on same archeological find, with perhaps some different details: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=672935 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=672935