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I honestly don't understand the point of analyzing the gender/race/whatever. I agree entirely with the fact that people should not hire solely on the basis of

by Morgawr 13y ago

I honestly don't understand the point of analyzing the gender/race/whatever. I agree entirely with the fact that people should not hire solely on the basis of a github account, but this has really nothing to do with gender or race. I mean, sure, it's a trend and with a lot of data everybody can self-proclaim himself as a statistician but just analyzing a bunch of stats and drawing conclusion isn't really making a point (causation/correlation etc etc). Saying that women or black people or LGBT members don't have time to contribute to OSS because of "other reasons" is, in my opinion, even more discriminating just for the sake of doing it. If they want to, they can contribute, they can find the time. Personally, I am a graduate student pursuing a higher degree, I work as a teaching assistant in university, I have a lot of assignment, work on my thesis, publications and a lot of stuff going on in my life, and yet I still find those couple of hours every night to hack away. Sure, my sleep schedule can get messy and I have to renounce to a lot of social activities to do that, but I do it. I don't see any difference with my life schedule and the schedule of another person, be it a woman, a poc, a LGBT militant or whatever, we all have our own interests and this has nothing to do with "what" we are, just with "who" we are. Personally, my girlfriend is a computer scientist (although we work on separate fields), she doesn't have github and doesn't contribute much to other projects but she still codes a lot and works on interesting academic projects and stuff. In many ways she's much better than me and nothing would stop her from making a github account and contribute to other projects, just that she doesn't. It's not in her interests and has nothing to do with her being a woman or not having time. If you want to base your arguments on gender/racial issues, I find it ridiculous to do so in a semi-anonymous environment like github where nobody needs to know anything about you, as long as your skills are there. Rant aside (it really bothers me, I am a huge supporter of gender equality and all those issues but I don't like people blaming everything on that), I entirely agree on not requiring a github account to hire people.

steveklabnik 13y ago
So, you cannot draw conclusions from the published scientific literature, but you _can_ draw conclusion because your girlfriend codes? Just want to make sure I understand your line of argument here. ------------------ Also: > I find it ridiculous to do so in a semi-anonymous environment like github where nobody needs to know anything about you, as long as your skills are there. If you read carefully, you'll notice that it's not just overt discrimination from knowing who you are; it's also a lack of time, opportunity, and a bunch of other things. Furthermore, GitHub is _not_ anonymous, many of us do use our real names on there. Suggesting that others should revert to anonymity while the rest of us 'build our personal brands' is, well...
- Morgawr 13y ago
  I'm not drawing any conclusion, I just treat women, poc and LGBT people as, you know, PEOPLE. There's nothing that stops anybody from contributing repos to github. Certainly it's not their gender or their race or whatever other social construct. If you don't have time it's because you don't find time, which means you don't have any interest in it. And, you know what? It's fine. Are you saying that women or black people have a too busy agenda doing their <enter stereotype> stuff that they possibly cannot use github? Please, if you want to talk about people not having enough opportunities to participate in github community, talk about people living in Nigeria, Tibet, North Korea. They surely have bigger problems. This has nothing to do with gender or race. No, not at all. If we consider discrimination on the workplace, in the industry, at a job interview, then sure, I can agree with you. A woman might have a harder time being accepted in the industry (sadly), same goes for other minorities. But on github? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
  - csixty4 13y ago
    > Are you saying that women or black people have a too busy agenda doing their <enter stereotype> stuff that they possibly cannot use github? That's exactly what the article is saying: > 52% of women caregivers with incomes at or below of the national median of $35k spend 20+ hours each week providing care. The largest racial demographics in this group are black and hispanic. 20+ hours a week caring for children, elders, or family members with some form of disability. Fair or not, it's expected that they'll do it. > Due to additional pay inequity contributing to less access to paid childcare, women of color perform far more child care than white women. They can't just pay someone else to do it. If they could afford a babysitter while they hack on some code in order to get a better-paying job, that would be awesome. But that's not realistic for a lot of people. > On childcare alone, mothers spend more than twice as much time per day as fathers do. Fathers are a lot more involved in raising children than they used to be, but mothers still get stuck with the bulk of the work. Hell, I've lost 4-5 hours out of my week since I took up jogging. It's a big boost to my health and a way to keep life-long weight issues at bay, so I'm not complaining. But just taking on an additional "hobby" like that takes up the equivalent of half a work day.
matdesigner 13y ago
lol this is so ignorant, a forced head-in-the-sand.

by Morgawr 13y ago

steveklabnik 13y ago

So, you cannot draw conclusions from the published scientific literature, but you _can_ draw conclusion because your girlfriend codes? Just want to make sure I understand your line of argument here. ------------------ Also: > I find it ridiculous to do so in a semi-anonymous environment like github where nobody needs to know anything about you, as long as your skills are there. If you read carefully, you'll notice that it's not just overt discrimination from knowing who you are; it's also a lack of time, opportunity, and a bunch of other things. Furthermore, GitHub is _not_ anonymous, many of us do use our real names on there. Suggesting that others should revert to anonymity while the rest of us 'build our personal brands' is, well...

Morgawr 13y ago
I'm not drawing any conclusion, I just treat women, poc and LGBT people as, you know, PEOPLE. There's nothing that stops anybody from contributing repos to github. Certainly it's not their gender or their race or whatever other social construct. If you don't have time it's because you don't find time, which means you don't have any interest in it. And, you know what? It's fine. Are you saying that women or black people have a too busy agenda doing their <enter stereotype> stuff that they possibly cannot use github? Please, if you want to talk about people not having enough opportunities to participate in github community, talk about people living in Nigeria, Tibet, North Korea. They surely have bigger problems. This has nothing to do with gender or race. No, not at all. If we consider discrimination on the workplace, in the industry, at a job interview, then sure, I can agree with you. A woman might have a harder time being accepted in the industry (sadly), same goes for other minorities. But on github? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
- csixty4 13y ago
  > Are you saying that women or black people have a too busy agenda doing their <enter stereotype> stuff that they possibly cannot use github? That's exactly what the article is saying: > 52% of women caregivers with incomes at or below of the national median of $35k spend 20+ hours each week providing care. The largest racial demographics in this group are black and hispanic. 20+ hours a week caring for children, elders, or family members with some form of disability. Fair or not, it's expected that they'll do it. > Due to additional pay inequity contributing to less access to paid childcare, women of color perform far more child care than white women. They can't just pay someone else to do it. If they could afford a babysitter while they hack on some code in order to get a better-paying job, that would be awesome. But that's not realistic for a lot of people. > On childcare alone, mothers spend more than twice as much time per day as fathers do. Fathers are a lot more involved in raising children than they used to be, but mothers still get stuck with the bulk of the work. Hell, I've lost 4-5 hours out of my week since I took up jogging. It's a big boost to my health and a way to keep life-long weight issues at bay, so I'm not complaining. But just taking on an additional "hobby" like that takes up the equivalent of half a work day.

matdesigner 13y ago

lol this is so ignorant, a forced head-in-the-sand.