4 ms·

No because I believe Aaron would be upset if there weren't people fighting to right the wrongs of his death or murder. This wasn't a clear cut case of suicide.

by dlsx 13y ago

No because I believe Aaron would be upset if there weren't people fighting to right the wrongs of his death or murder. This wasn't a clear cut case of suicide. He was practically murdered by the state. What would you do if you were facing those charges, and anyone that tried to help you being bullied to march forward with their agenda. An agenda that the corrupt politicians in Washington are pushing. An agenda to close and wall the internet so more free people can be brought to "justice" for their crimes against corporations.

raldi 13y ago
> What would you do if you were facing those charges Are you referring to the six month plea bargain he was offered?
- apgwoz 13y ago
  ... but still being labelled a felon, who cant vote, and is a second class citizen.
  - sanoli 13y ago
    I think the parent's questioning still applies. What would you do: serve six months, be labelled a felon (for something that you still believed wasn't wrong), not be allowed to vote, or commit suicide?
  - raldi 13y ago
    So every felon, including Martha Stewart, was "practically murdered" by the state?
    - stolio 13y ago
      Proving a false equivocation wrong doesn't help your case. There's a big difference between being charged with a felony for insider trading and then lying to regulators about it (Martha Stewart) and Aaron's case which was clearly an overly aggressive prosecution. Martha Stewart also went to jail worth hundreds of millions and came out a billionaire[0]. Aaron had had his personal wealth bled dry so his prospects of life after jail were very different from Martha Stewart's. He didn't have anywhere near her resources to fight back legally. Also, for her pleading guilty only meant that she agreed that insider trading and lying are wrong, pleading guilty for Aaron Swartz would be saying that everything he fought for was wrong, essentially agreeing that who he was was wrong. Martha Stewart's half-year in jail and felony conviction was wildly different from Aaron Swartz's and seeing them compared is very disappointing. [0] - http://www.biography.com/people/martha-stewart-9542234 http://www.biography.com/people/martha-stewart-9542234
JonFish85 13y ago
"He was practically murdered by the state." Let's not get carried away. He was allegedly offered a plea bargain to serve 6 months[1], which he did not take. Why he turned it down, who knows, but that's what he decided to do. [1] http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-lawyer-says-aaron-swartz-was-offered-plea-deal-six-months-behind-bars/hQt8sQI64tnV6FAd7CLcTJ/story.html http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-...
MarkTee 13y ago
> What would you do if you were facing those charges? Are you asserting that suicide is the most reasonable option in a situation like this? I've noticed this sentiment a lot lately (you hear it all the time in discussions about youths who commit suicide after having been bullied excessively); as if outside forces are overwhelmingly responsible for when a person takes their own life, and any personal culpability that that person might have had is thrown out the window. I'm not saying that the events that contribute towards a suicide should be ignored, but it's important to remember that suicide, by definition, is always a personal choice. We should be doing more to assist, or even empower, those who feel as if they have to make that choice. Instead of doing the easy thing and blaming a scapegoat (to say that "[Aaron] was practically murdered by the state" is ludicrous, and not at all productive), why don't we look at the root of the problem - what really caused Swartz to do what he did (i.e., a poor state of mental health, something that currently affects millions of Americans) - and work towards preventing it from happening to others?
- olefoo 13y ago
  Suicide is a symptom of acute mental illness. Framing it in terms of personal responsibility is often cruelly ignorant because it ignores much about the actual experiences of the person involved. Would you blame a diabetic who loses his foot because he was unaware that he'd contracted an infection? Would you give a lecture on personal responsibility to the mother of a child whose first asthma attack ever was fatal? If someone dies of an infection contracted because someone else threw them in a septic tank; is it their fault for swimming in sewage? In Aaron's case, we don't know exactly what was going through his head when he killed himself; but we do know he was being put under extreme pressure by prosecutors who were less interested in justice than in punishing him for imagined slights, especially the PACER affair.
  - sanoli 13y ago
    Thank you for pointing this out. People shouldn't be 'blamed' for taking their lives. However, I always feel this uneasiness around people when, like you said, the fact that suicide is a symptom of mental illness is brought up. It's as if people associate having mental illness with being some sort of 'good person club' outcast, or having some character flaw.

by dlsx 13y ago

raldi 13y ago

> What would you do if you were facing those charges Are you referring to the six month plea bargain he was offered?

apgwoz 13y ago
... but still being labelled a felon, who cant vote, and is a second class citizen.
- sanoli 13y ago
  I think the parent's questioning still applies. What would you do: serve six months, be labelled a felon (for something that you still believed wasn't wrong), not be allowed to vote, or commit suicide?
- raldi 13y ago
  So every felon, including Martha Stewart, was "practically murdered" by the state?
  - stolio 13y ago
    Proving a false equivocation wrong doesn't help your case. There's a big difference between being charged with a felony for insider trading and then lying to regulators about it (Martha Stewart) and Aaron's case which was clearly an overly aggressive prosecution. Martha Stewart also went to jail worth hundreds of millions and came out a billionaire[0]. Aaron had had his personal wealth bled dry so his prospects of life after jail were very different from Martha Stewart's. He didn't have anywhere near her resources to fight back legally. Also, for her pleading guilty only meant that she agreed that insider trading and lying are wrong, pleading guilty for Aaron Swartz would be saying that everything he fought for was wrong, essentially agreeing that who he was was wrong. Martha Stewart's half-year in jail and felony conviction was wildly different from Aaron Swartz's and seeing them compared is very disappointing. [0] - http://www.biography.com/people/martha-stewart-9542234 http://www.biography.com/people/martha-stewart-9542234

JonFish85 13y ago

"He was practically murdered by the state." Let's not get carried away. He was allegedly offered a plea bargain to serve 6 months[1], which he did not take. Why he turned it down, who knows, but that's what he decided to do. [1] http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-lawyer-says-aaron-swartz-was-offered-plea-deal-six-months-behind-bars/hQt8sQI64tnV6FAd7CLcTJ/story.html http://www.boston.com/metrodesk/2013/01/14/mit-hacking-case-...

MarkTee 13y ago

> What would you do if you were facing those charges? Are you asserting that suicide is the most reasonable option in a situation like this? I've noticed this sentiment a lot lately (you hear it all the time in discussions about youths who commit suicide after having been bullied excessively); as if outside forces are overwhelmingly responsible for when a person takes their own life, and any personal culpability that that person might have had is thrown out the window. I'm not saying that the events that contribute towards a suicide should be ignored, but it's important to remember that suicide, by definition, is always a personal choice. We should be doing more to assist, or even empower, those who feel as if they have to make that choice. Instead of doing the easy thing and blaming a scapegoat (to say that "[Aaron] was practically murdered by the state" is ludicrous, and not at all productive), why don't we look at the root of the problem - what really caused Swartz to do what he did (i.e., a poor state of mental health, something that currently affects millions of Americans) - and work towards preventing it from happening to others?

olefoo 13y ago
Suicide is a symptom of acute mental illness. Framing it in terms of personal responsibility is often cruelly ignorant because it ignores much about the actual experiences of the person involved. Would you blame a diabetic who loses his foot because he was unaware that he'd contracted an infection? Would you give a lecture on personal responsibility to the mother of a child whose first asthma attack ever was fatal? If someone dies of an infection contracted because someone else threw them in a septic tank; is it their fault for swimming in sewage? In Aaron's case, we don't know exactly what was going through his head when he killed himself; but we do know he was being put under extreme pressure by prosecutors who were less interested in justice than in punishing him for imagined slights, especially the PACER affair.
- sanoli 13y ago
  Thank you for pointing this out. People shouldn't be 'blamed' for taking their lives. However, I always feel this uneasiness around people when, like you said, the fact that suicide is a symptom of mental illness is brought up. It's as if people associate having mental illness with being some sort of 'good person club' outcast, or having some character flaw.