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Why does everyone here hate Flash so much? I agree that Flash has weaknesses...but the combination of animation tools and concepts - combined with software cont

by tyohn 17y ago

Why does everyone here hate Flash so much? I agree that Flash has weaknesses...but the combination of animation tools and concepts - combined with software controlled interactivity is a direction I wish the entire web would embrace. Flash is visually appealing... some of the movie sites like UP (http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/up/main.html http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/up/main.html) are simply amazing.

proee 17y ago
I don't hate Flash, I hate Adobe.
pj 17y ago
Here's why: When I go to that link you provided, I get this: You need the lastest version of the Flash plugin to view this site. I have Flash installed, yet can't see that site because it's not the "correct" version. The problem with flash is that it is not a standard technology. It does not work in all browsers. It holds users up. It trains them to install software on their computers that could be virus ridden. It's not very good with respect to performance. Video plays much better when optimized to the hardware and Flash -- Adobe in general -- doesn't care about the hardware, they use custom algorithms for everything so their code runs slower than any software designed for a particular platform. Go to a website that offers video in both Flash and, if you are on windows, Windows Media player and then play the videos full screen, one at a time while watching Task Manager's performance tab and you'll see the CPU utilization for Flash is much higher because it doesn't know how to use hardware acceleration features. It's also another vector for trojans. It's reliant on a single company to support it, when the web is for all of us. Unlike the browser where you could argue IE is as bad as Flash, there are competing products in the browser space, but is there a Flash engine that isn't written by Adobe? In general, what you'll find is that a hacker will sacrifice good looks for longevity, maintainability, "open-ness," standards, and cost. Adobe's Flash loses on all of those. Sure, it's pretty and looks nice, but it fails on all the other tests. Furthermore, much of what Flash can do can be done with HTML and JavaScript. It is often the designers turned programmers who came from the Photoshop/Illustrator circles who learned to use Flash first and so they didn't take the time to learn how to do the same things with web standards. And if you go back far enough, flash was designed and used primarily in the beginning to build Flash Ads to replace animated Gifs and since then, the "flashy"ness of ads has taken off. They slow down the loading of sites. They take over our machines with their slowly running code and generally make the web experience worse for all of us. just my $0.02
- tyohn 17y ago
  When I read your comment - I was thinking Flash is the like the dumb blond of the internet looks great, a lot of fun but... I agree with a lot of what you are saying from a programmers point of view. But from a typical users point of view it "seems" to function and look great. Although I disagree with you about longevity and maintainability - I haven't had any trouble with those factors. I also disagree with you that HTML and JavaScript can do what Flash does. Don't get me wrong I love JavaScript but it doesn't do animation anywhere near Flash. I totally agree with you about cost and closed standards.
- jdowdell 17y ago
  No, most of what was said there is incorrect.

by tyohn 17y ago

proee 17y ago

I don't hate Flash, I hate Adobe.

pj 17y ago

Here's why: When I go to that link you provided, I get this: You need the lastest version of the Flash plugin to view this site. I have Flash installed, yet can't see that site because it's not the "correct" version. The problem with flash is that it is not a standard technology. It does not work in all browsers. It holds users up. It trains them to install software on their computers that could be virus ridden. It's not very good with respect to performance. Video plays much better when optimized to the hardware and Flash -- Adobe in general -- doesn't care about the hardware, they use custom algorithms for everything so their code runs slower than any software designed for a particular platform. Go to a website that offers video in both Flash and, if you are on windows, Windows Media player and then play the videos full screen, one at a time while watching Task Manager's performance tab and you'll see the CPU utilization for Flash is much higher because it doesn't know how to use hardware acceleration features. It's also another vector for trojans. It's reliant on a single company to support it, when the web is for all of us. Unlike the browser where you could argue IE is as bad as Flash, there are competing products in the browser space, but is there a Flash engine that isn't written by Adobe? In general, what you'll find is that a hacker will sacrifice good looks for longevity, maintainability, "open-ness," standards, and cost. Adobe's Flash loses on all of those. Sure, it's pretty and looks nice, but it fails on all the other tests. Furthermore, much of what Flash can do can be done with HTML and JavaScript. It is often the designers turned programmers who came from the Photoshop/Illustrator circles who learned to use Flash first and so they didn't take the time to learn how to do the same things with web standards. And if you go back far enough, flash was designed and used primarily in the beginning to build Flash Ads to replace animated Gifs and since then, the "flashy"ness of ads has taken off. They slow down the loading of sites. They take over our machines with their slowly running code and generally make the web experience worse for all of us. just my $0.02

tyohn 17y ago
When I read your comment - I was thinking Flash is the like the dumb blond of the internet looks great, a lot of fun but... I agree with a lot of what you are saying from a programmers point of view. But from a typical users point of view it "seems" to function and look great. Although I disagree with you about longevity and maintainability - I haven't had any trouble with those factors. I also disagree with you that HTML and JavaScript can do what Flash does. Don't get me wrong I love JavaScript but it doesn't do animation anywhere near Flash. I totally agree with you about cost and closed standards.
jdowdell 17y ago
No, most of what was said there is incorrect.