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“After knocking on his door, FBI special agents witnessed Mr. Levison leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away.” Maybe his car was parke

“After knocking on his door, FBI special agents witnessed Mr. Levison leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away.” Maybe his car was parked out rear? Maybe he needed milk? Maybe the local convenience store wasn't within walking distance? I'm just saying that we needn't jump to any hasty conclusions. This does look mighty suspicious though. Seriously though. Ladar Levison acted contra to his own best interests and in alignment with _all_ of our best interests in thwarting the FBI's attempts at quickly locating and apprehending Edward Snowden. Whatever we may think about Dark Circle it is clear that his heart is in the right place. I wouldn't have the ability and guts to do what he has done and I praise him for it. Yes, he could have designed his previous system better, seems like he's going to try harder next time. We should help.

fleitz 13y ago
You're allowed to leave your apartment if people come to your door. Since the officers did not touch him there's no possible way he could be under arrest. It's a free country you can leave and enter your premises as you see fit.
- igravious 13y ago
  > You're allowed to leave your apartment if people come to your door. The FBI and co. are not regular people. > It's a free country you can leave and enter your premises as you see fit. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to imply. I mean, if it's such a free country then why did the FBI special agents make note of the fact that they "witnessed Mr. Levison leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away" and furthermore why did they include this noted piece of information in the court brief. My understanding of it is that they are insinuating?/stating? that Ladar Levison actively evaded the law. Anyway, it's a minor issue, is it not?
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Did they follow him? Seems like that'd be the logical next step?
    - MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
      They followed him. Ladar freaked out because he had no idea what was going on, he didn't realize the people tailing him were government agents.
malandrew 13y ago
The interesting thing here is if there exist conditions under which you can just disappear such that it is impossible to subpeona you. For example, if they had contacted him prior to serving a notice from a judge and he expected to receive a subpeona soon or eventually, what stops him from simply leaving town for a while on a fishing trip or to visit family and conveniently returning when its been long enough that getting the information is of much less use?
- thaumasiotes 13y ago
  It was my impression that an incorporated company is required to have a registered point of contact. A sole proprietor wouldn't be subject to that requirement, obviously, but most enterprises are not operated as proprietorships.
  - jlgaddis 13y ago
    Yep, I have a couple of single-member LLCs and I'm required to have a registered agent (basically someone who is normally available during typical business hours at a given location) to accept service.
  - ensignavenger 13y ago
    That point of contact does not have to be available 24/7/365.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      Is that point of contact required to be able to be able to handle unconstitutional law enforcement requirements like NSLs? The only person that needs to "disappear" is the person who can satisfy the requirements of an NSL. i.e. the person with the SSL cert and password.
      - thaumasiotes 13y ago
        Disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Every single thing in this comment is speculation. That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the following features in the system: - Point of contact must be available during normal business hours. - If the point of contact is not able to handle a particular request from the government, the company is legally responsible for making someone who can available, within a reasonable window of time after the contact point gets the request. - I don't see that the employees can be subject to a legal requirement to appear, or be located anywhere in particular, or be reachable by any means. But the company can. - I'm pretty sure whether or not the law enforcement requirements are putatively unconstitutional makes no difference.
ghayes 13y ago
I heard Ladar speak on this topic. Apparently his apartment isn't on the first floor and only has a balcony out back. He just walked out the front door, as he says it.
- MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
  Not only is his apartment not on the first floor, it's several hundred feet above ground level.
  - Luc 13y ago
    His building doesn't have a back door? You're being very literal minded if you interpret 'leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away.' wrongly. I mean, his car wasn't parked on his balcony, was it? It's obvious what is being referred to unless you're picking nits.
    - MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
      The elevator leads to the parking garage, which is where Ladar parks his car. There are a couple of side doors that lead out into a shopping center/dog park, but if you leave that way you can't get to your vehicle easily. The FBI says he drove away, implying he got in his car, which means he took the elevator down to the lobby and walked through the big glass doors into the garage. The most likely just didn't get there in time to catch him in his apartment (or missed him while he was heading down the elevator). I don't understand why they are lying about something as stupid as this, though.
      - Luc 13y ago
        > The most likely just didn't get there in time to catch him in his apartment (or missed him while he was heading down the elevator) That seems to fit what's said in the article and what Levison said himself ('I was just leaving my house'). What the FBI said _could_ be read to imply causality between their knocking and him leaving, but perhaps it's due to paraphrasing (and putting a spin on) the agent's report by the US attorney.
MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
This story is total, complete, bullshit. I've been to Ladars apartment multiple times, he lives on the 5th or 6th floor of a high rise. His "back door" is a sliding glass door that leads out onto a 5 square foot metal balcony. So, unless Ladar happens to be spiderman, the FBI agent is lying through his teeth.
- pvnick 13y ago
  It's comments like these and the close-knit community of hackers that keeps me coming back to HN. Everyone seems to know a guy.

fleitz 13y ago

You're allowed to leave your apartment if people come to your door. Since the officers did not touch him there's no possible way he could be under arrest. It's a free country you can leave and enter your premises as you see fit.

igravious 13y ago
> You're allowed to leave your apartment if people come to your door. The FBI and co. are not regular people. > It's a free country you can leave and enter your premises as you see fit. I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to imply. I mean, if it's such a free country then why did the FBI special agents make note of the fact that they "witnessed Mr. Levison leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away" and furthermore why did they include this noted piece of information in the court brief. My understanding of it is that they are insinuating?/stating? that Ladar Levison actively evaded the law. Anyway, it's a minor issue, is it not?
- malandrew 13y ago
  Did they follow him? Seems like that'd be the logical next step?
  - MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
    They followed him. Ladar freaked out because he had no idea what was going on, he didn't realize the people tailing him were government agents.

malandrew 13y ago

The interesting thing here is if there exist conditions under which you can just disappear such that it is impossible to subpeona you. For example, if they had contacted him prior to serving a notice from a judge and he expected to receive a subpeona soon or eventually, what stops him from simply leaving town for a while on a fishing trip or to visit family and conveniently returning when its been long enough that getting the information is of much less use?

thaumasiotes 13y ago
It was my impression that an incorporated company is required to have a registered point of contact. A sole proprietor wouldn't be subject to that requirement, obviously, but most enterprises are not operated as proprietorships.
- jlgaddis 13y ago
  Yep, I have a couple of single-member LLCs and I'm required to have a registered agent (basically someone who is normally available during typical business hours at a given location) to accept service.
- ensignavenger 13y ago
  That point of contact does not have to be available 24/7/365.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Is that point of contact required to be able to be able to handle unconstitutional law enforcement requirements like NSLs? The only person that needs to "disappear" is the person who can satisfy the requirements of an NSL. i.e. the person with the SSL cert and password.
    - thaumasiotes 13y ago
      Disclaimer: I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. Every single thing in this comment is speculation. That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the following features in the system: - Point of contact must be available during normal business hours. - If the point of contact is not able to handle a particular request from the government, the company is legally responsible for making someone who can available, within a reasonable window of time after the contact point gets the request. - I don't see that the employees can be subject to a legal requirement to appear, or be located anywhere in particular, or be reachable by any means. But the company can. - I'm pretty sure whether or not the law enforcement requirements are putatively unconstitutional makes no difference.

ghayes 13y ago

I heard Ladar speak on this topic. Apparently his apartment isn't on the first floor and only has a balcony out back. He just walked out the front door, as he says it.

MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
Not only is his apartment not on the first floor, it's several hundred feet above ground level.
- Luc 13y ago
  His building doesn't have a back door? You're being very literal minded if you interpret 'leave the rear of his apartment, get in his car, and drive away.' wrongly. I mean, his car wasn't parked on his balcony, was it? It's obvious what is being referred to unless you're picking nits.
  - MagicWishMonkey 13y ago
    The elevator leads to the parking garage, which is where Ladar parks his car. There are a couple of side doors that lead out into a shopping center/dog park, but if you leave that way you can't get to your vehicle easily. The FBI says he drove away, implying he got in his car, which means he took the elevator down to the lobby and walked through the big glass doors into the garage. The most likely just didn't get there in time to catch him in his apartment (or missed him while he was heading down the elevator). I don't understand why they are lying about something as stupid as this, though.
    - Luc 13y ago
      > The most likely just didn't get there in time to catch him in his apartment (or missed him while he was heading down the elevator) That seems to fit what's said in the article and what Levison said himself ('I was just leaving my house'). What the FBI said _could_ be read to imply causality between their knocking and him leaving, but perhaps it's due to paraphrasing (and putting a spin on) the agent's report by the US attorney.

MagicWishMonkey 13y ago

This story is total, complete, bullshit. I've been to Ladars apartment multiple times, he lives on the 5th or 6th floor of a high rise. His "back door" is a sliding glass door that leads out onto a 5 square foot metal balcony. So, unless Ladar happens to be spiderman, the FBI agent is lying through his teeth.

pvnick 13y ago
It's comments like these and the close-knit community of hackers that keeps me coming back to HN. Everyone seems to know a guy.