4 ms·

SSN Required To Buy Palm Pre

20 points by gasull 17y ago

newsio 17y ago
The arrogance of some companies and their demands for personal information that has nothing to do with the business at hand is astounding. What's even more amazing is the surprise and inability to cope with customers' questions and refusal to give them the information. My breaking point was reached when the local Snippets -- a franchise that cuts kids' hair -- demanded my phone number when I came to get my son's hair cut. When I asked why, the answer was "we need it for our system." I surmise that they want it for some sort of customer tracking database to use as a unique ID, but my refusal threw them for a loop.
- robotrout 17y ago
  Glad I'm not the only one. Radio Shack was my nemesis, as I purchased stuff there often, when prototyping and not willing to wait for next day delivery. I used to get myself worked up before I even got to the store. Over the years, I've optimized it to just a friendly "Nope!" when they ask for a phone number. Doctors offices and dentists offices are another one. Their little 'new patient' form demands much more information than they need. I leave it blank or draw a line through it. When I'm getting my hair cut, since it's a more intimate relationship, I'm reluctant to be quite as rude, so I just tell them that I don't have a phone.
  - Harkins 17y ago
    I like to say "No thanks". If you think about it logically it doesn't parse, but I've found that the common phrase invokes the "I just was just treated politely" part of the brain in almost everyone, saving much hassle.
LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago
I'll quote the same thing I posted on Slashdot in response to another comment: I'm under the impression that most of this stuff is a complete racket though. Sure, Sprint can put several thousand dollars on your bill in one month because you used your data plan in Canada or something. But did that actually cost Sprint very much? If not, who cares if you cannot pay the bill? As long as you can at least pay enough to cover Sprint's costs, it shouldn't be a big deal for them if you simply owe them a lot of money. Actually, it does cost Sprint money. If a credit card charge is declined the card issuer charges Sprint a fee. Failed billing is a huge issue for telecommunications companies. I wrote billing software for a large telecommunications company and dealt directly with this issue. Something like 40% of all attempted credit card charges were declined for one reason or another. That is a lot of money lost to no good end. I personally and single-handedly implemented the system which would attempt to authorize (not withdraw) one month's worth of billing from new credit card signups. It is amazing how many people hit their credit limit when you check to see if $45 is there. And even then a large number of those who pass that check will fail to pay their bill when you attempt to charge. Asking for (and storing! WTF) SSNs to sign up for a service contract is heinous, I agree. But there is a lot of money lost to attempting to charge the credit cards of people who then fail to pay their bills.
- thras 17y ago
  The number of failed credit card authorizations each month sounds like a useful economic indicator. There might be quants on Wall Street that could do something interesting with that sort of data.
- chrisbolt 17y ago
  The fee is insignificant compared to the cost of the bill, or the cost of a chargeback if a card holder disputes a charge.
_pius 17y ago
What annoys me about situations like this is the sheer dogma involved. Doing what the person in this story did, offering to pay the entirety of the contract up front should obviate the need for a credit check. Period.
- tedunangst 17y ago
  Since the people at the store probably don't have direct SQL access to the database, they have to use the front end to create your account. And the people who wrote the front end were probably just following the spec. And the person who wrote the spec probably wasn't paid to consider every possible scenario with which to bloat the spec and push the project over time and over budget.
  - bestes 17y ago
    Just doing my job. Didn't the world conclude that was not a valid excuse somewhere around 1945? Also, I think the success of pre-paid accounts show how much many people despise all the dirty tricks with contracts (like the $5000 bill when you had the wrong data plan, SMS fees, etc.) It also proves the infrastructure exists to prevent these kinds of abuses. By that, I mean limits on how much of a bill you are willing to pay rather than the open-ended, oops you should have read the fine print, unlimited credit line.
    - potatolicious 17y ago
      Are you seriously comparing someone asking you for your SSN for a cell phone contract... with the Holocaust?
      - _pius 17y ago
        Godwin's Law in action.
        bestes 17y ago
        Sorry, I should know better. I do hate when companies take their monopoly power(over the air waves, in this case) to do things that are bad for people. I can't find a link or think of a reference of an appropriate level right now.
padmanabhan01 17y ago
There is nothing new about this. All post paid monthly plans in US requires SSN, (Palm/Nokia/Motorola or whatever), (Sprint/Verizon/ATT whatever).
- andr 17y ago
  Yep, a credit check is par for the course, even for SIM-only contracts (ie bring your phone). This generates some extra cash for the telecoms by forcing some people to the much more expensive pay as you go plans.
  - anigbrowl 17y ago
    Much more expensive? I've used MetroPCS for years and I just pay a flat $50/mo., which gives me unlimited national calling, texting, voicemail etc. If I had a blackberry I think the data plan is about $75/mo. I might possibly do better on some other carrier's plans, but the convenience fact or having a flat fee and not having to keep track of minutes is worth a few bucks to me.
    - mattmaroon 17y ago
      That's not a pay as you go plan. That's just normal service on an MVNO. Pay as you go is where you have no monthly fee, and buy minutes ahead of time and have to re-up when you run out. That is way more expensive on a per-minute basis but much cheaper in total for people who carry phones mainly for emergency purposes.
mattmaroon 17y ago
Is this not standard fare in the American cellphone industry? A phone is a line of credit. You can even buy 3rd party stuff with it. I could swear I've had to do this with Verizon too.
garply 17y ago
I'm consistently amazed by how much power the telecom companies have in the US. I'm living in China, where they use SIM cards, and I just bought my phone and accompanying phone number completely anonymously, using cash only. When I recharge the money on my card, I go to a store and pay cash. If I want a new handset, I just take out the card and swap it into a new phone - keeping my cell phone number and contacts. The flexibility has even fueled a boom of tiny cell-phone designing companies that make all kinds of innovative creations called 'shanzhai' phones. Is this just a US thing? Or are handsets locked to carriers in most of the rest of the world as well?

20 points by gasull 17y ago

The arrogance of some companies and their demands for personal information that has nothing to do with the business at hand is astounding. What's even more amazing is the surprise and inability to cope with customers' questions and refusal to give them the information. My breaking point was reached when the local Snippets -- a franchise that cuts kids' hair -- demanded my phone number when I came to get my son's hair cut. When I asked why, the answer was "we need it for our system." I surmise that they want it for some sort of customer tracking database to use as a unique ID, but my refusal threw them for a loop.

robotrout 17y ago
Glad I'm not the only one. Radio Shack was my nemesis, as I purchased stuff there often, when prototyping and not willing to wait for next day delivery. I used to get myself worked up before I even got to the store. Over the years, I've optimized it to just a friendly "Nope!" when they ask for a phone number. Doctors offices and dentists offices are another one. Their little 'new patient' form demands much more information than they need. I leave it blank or draw a line through it. When I'm getting my hair cut, since it's a more intimate relationship, I'm reluctant to be quite as rude, so I just tell them that I don't have a phone.
- Harkins 17y ago
  I like to say "No thanks". If you think about it logically it doesn't parse, but I've found that the common phrase invokes the "I just was just treated politely" part of the brain in almost everyone, saving much hassle.

LogicHoleFlaw 17y ago

I'll quote the same thing I posted on Slashdot in response to another comment: I'm under the impression that most of this stuff is a complete racket though. Sure, Sprint can put several thousand dollars on your bill in one month because you used your data plan in Canada or something. But did that actually cost Sprint very much? If not, who cares if you cannot pay the bill? As long as you can at least pay enough to cover Sprint's costs, it shouldn't be a big deal for them if you simply owe them a lot of money. Actually, it does cost Sprint money. If a credit card charge is declined the card issuer charges Sprint a fee. Failed billing is a huge issue for telecommunications companies. I wrote billing software for a large telecommunications company and dealt directly with this issue. Something like 40% of all attempted credit card charges were declined for one reason or another. That is a lot of money lost to no good end. I personally and single-handedly implemented the system which would attempt to authorize (not withdraw) one month's worth of billing from new credit card signups. It is amazing how many people hit their credit limit when you check to see if $45 is there. And even then a large number of those who pass that check will fail to pay their bill when you attempt to charge. Asking for (and storing! WTF) SSNs to sign up for a service contract is heinous, I agree. But there is a lot of money lost to attempting to charge the credit cards of people who then fail to pay their bills.

thras 17y ago
The number of failed credit card authorizations each month sounds like a useful economic indicator. There might be quants on Wall Street that could do something interesting with that sort of data.
chrisbolt 17y ago
The fee is insignificant compared to the cost of the bill, or the cost of a chargeback if a card holder disputes a charge.

_pius 17y ago

What annoys me about situations like this is the sheer dogma involved. Doing what the person in this story did, offering to pay the entirety of the contract up front should obviate the need for a credit check. Period.

tedunangst 17y ago
Since the people at the store probably don't have direct SQL access to the database, they have to use the front end to create your account. And the people who wrote the front end were probably just following the spec. And the person who wrote the spec probably wasn't paid to consider every possible scenario with which to bloat the spec and push the project over time and over budget.
- bestes 17y ago
  Just doing my job. Didn't the world conclude that was not a valid excuse somewhere around 1945? Also, I think the success of pre-paid accounts show how much many people despise all the dirty tricks with contracts (like the $5000 bill when you had the wrong data plan, SMS fees, etc.) It also proves the infrastructure exists to prevent these kinds of abuses. By that, I mean limits on how much of a bill you are willing to pay rather than the open-ended, oops you should have read the fine print, unlimited credit line.
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    Are you seriously comparing someone asking you for your SSN for a cell phone contract... with the Holocaust?
    - _pius 17y ago
      Godwin's Law in action.
      - bestes 17y ago
        Sorry, I should know better. I do hate when companies take their monopoly power(over the air waves, in this case) to do things that are bad for people. I can't find a link or think of a reference of an appropriate level right now.

padmanabhan01 17y ago

There is nothing new about this. All post paid monthly plans in US requires SSN, (Palm/Nokia/Motorola or whatever), (Sprint/Verizon/ATT whatever).

andr 17y ago
Yep, a credit check is par for the course, even for SIM-only contracts (ie bring your phone). This generates some extra cash for the telecoms by forcing some people to the much more expensive pay as you go plans.
- anigbrowl 17y ago
  Much more expensive? I've used MetroPCS for years and I just pay a flat $50/mo., which gives me unlimited national calling, texting, voicemail etc. If I had a blackberry I think the data plan is about $75/mo. I might possibly do better on some other carrier's plans, but the convenience fact or having a flat fee and not having to keep track of minutes is worth a few bucks to me.
  - mattmaroon 17y ago
    That's not a pay as you go plan. That's just normal service on an MVNO. Pay as you go is where you have no monthly fee, and buy minutes ahead of time and have to re-up when you run out. That is way more expensive on a per-minute basis but much cheaper in total for people who carry phones mainly for emergency purposes.

mattmaroon 17y ago

Is this not standard fare in the American cellphone industry? A phone is a line of credit. You can even buy 3rd party stuff with it. I could swear I've had to do this with Verizon too.

garply 17y ago

I'm consistently amazed by how much power the telecom companies have in the US. I'm living in China, where they use SIM cards, and I just bought my phone and accompanying phone number completely anonymously, using cash only. When I recharge the money on my card, I go to a store and pay cash. If I want a new handset, I just take out the card and swap it into a new phone - keeping my cell phone number and contacts. The flexibility has even fueled a boom of tiny cell-phone designing companies that make all kinds of innovative creations called 'shanzhai' phones. Is this just a US thing? Or are handsets locked to carriers in most of the rest of the world as well?