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Um. Have you ever tried Ubuntu? The "standardized gui" and "desktop environment" are a non-issue these days. The list of non-monopoly reasons for Microsoft domi

Um. Have you ever tried Ubuntu? The "standardized gui" and "desktop environment" are a non-issue these days. The list of non-monopoly reasons for Microsoft dominance is growing thin. Though, I'll go ahead and contradict myself by noting that manufacturers such as Dell are today shipping Linux with some PCs.

surki 17y ago
May be ubuntu has "standardized gui"(arguably they too have kubuntu, edubuntu..), not Linux. When I want create an application for Linux, I am still baffled with the wide variety of distros and their libs. To start with - (.deb or .rpm etc), (gtk or qt or etc)
- icefox 17y ago
  Yah and when I go to windows I am baffled, (exe or zip), (win32, dotnet, java, qt, mono, com, python, wxwidgets...., visual studio look-n-feel, explorer look-n-feel, Office look-n-feel)
jncraton 17y ago
I run Ubuntu daily. I love Linux, and I want to see it improve. Linux dominates in the area of raw performance, but that isn't the main thing that matters to an end user. When I sit down at a Mac, I know exactly how to do everything because all the tools and utilities are organized in a way that I understand. When I sit down at someone's customized Linux machine, it isn't always going to be easy to sit down and actually get work done.
- nixme 17y ago
  In your original post, you said: > Other operating system provide much more productive human interfaces which enhances productivity far more than raw processing power ever will. (emphasis added) I disagree with that. A highly customized Linux (or BSD) interface can be much more productive than other operating systems. Yes, you're right that sitting down at a random Mac (Aqua) or Windows box is easier to pick up and get going, but that does not rule out that for daily use a tuned Unix desktop environment can be much more productive than the others would ever be.
  - jncraton 17y ago
    You're correct. For someone who understand usability and interface design, the ability to customize will enhance productivity. Unfortunately, most users don't understand this, so the ability to customize generally leads to clutter (see myspace).
- olefoo 17y ago
  > When I sit down at a Mac, I know exactly how to do everything because all the tools and utilities are organized in a way that I understand. I do not find this to be the case. (I run both Mac and Linux using synergy). I have found that I typically have to customize a Mac desktop before it is usable to me. About the same amount that I need to customise a Linux desktop. On Windows I get frustrated and irritated because things that ought to be simple are hidden away in control panels that use non-standard terminology (ie. "internet zone"). Most usability differences between OS's are matters of familiarity, there are only a few examples where minimising the cognitive load was a design goal for a piece of software. And in the case of a general purpose computer that is not an interesting goal, since a computer is supposed to become whatever you tell it to become. In other words the cognitive load of a general purpose computer is infinite, because you can always send it more instructions... The trick is to carve durable bits of functionality out of that infinity.
- dkarl 17y ago
  I think Macs are quite counterintuitive for people from the Windows world. I jump between: - OSX (my home box for Lightspeed/iTunes/Squeezecenter) - KDE3 (my home programming box, and my work desktop until I started using Awesome a few weeks ago) - Windows XP (my work laptop) I feel perfectly comfortable jumping between Windows and KDE3. They're basically the same logic, the same way of thinking. OSX, which I'm posting from right now, is entirely different and extremely frustrating for me. To switch to an app, I click on the same icon I used to launch it? The menu bar associated with a window lives at the top of the screen? When I focus different windows, the weird detached menu bar at the top of the screen magically changes? GUI conventions like these don't make any intrinsic sense. You're either used to them or you're not. People who are used to Windows will find the KDE3 conventions quite familiar, whereas OSX will be quite alien. Customization is a different issue. "End users" aren't likely to sit down at the desk of a customization-mad hacker. They might inadvertently screw up their own desktops, but they can do that with Windows anyway. "My entire screen is gray!" "Where did all my files go? They were here yesterday!" Except with complete computer beginners (a vanishing species) it's a relatively minor problem.
  - gnaritas 17y ago
    One toolbar that's always in the same place and always fully visible rather than cropped down because the window is to small. One icon you click to use app X regardless of whether it's already open or not. This is actually a much simpler and more logical way of doing things than the Windows way, especially for a new user. The Windows way is far more complex, requires more learning to understand, and more things to remember. You just don't think of these things as extra steps because they've become so ingrained and you don't realize you're behavior is actually quite complex.
- aliem 17y ago
  When I sit down at someone's customized Linux machine, ... I just open a nice terminal emulator or a virtual tty and get the work done (i can do it even in osx)

surki 17y ago

May be ubuntu has "standardized gui"(arguably they too have kubuntu, edubuntu..), not Linux. When I want create an application for Linux, I am still baffled with the wide variety of distros and their libs. To start with - (.deb or .rpm etc), (gtk or qt or etc)

icefox 17y ago
Yah and when I go to windows I am baffled, (exe or zip), (win32, dotnet, java, qt, mono, com, python, wxwidgets...., visual studio look-n-feel, explorer look-n-feel, Office look-n-feel)

jncraton 17y ago

I run Ubuntu daily. I love Linux, and I want to see it improve. Linux dominates in the area of raw performance, but that isn't the main thing that matters to an end user. When I sit down at a Mac, I know exactly how to do everything because all the tools and utilities are organized in a way that I understand. When I sit down at someone's customized Linux machine, it isn't always going to be easy to sit down and actually get work done.

nixme 17y ago
In your original post, you said: > Other operating system provide much more productive human interfaces which enhances productivity far more than raw processing power ever will. (emphasis added) I disagree with that. A highly customized Linux (or BSD) interface can be much more productive than other operating systems. Yes, you're right that sitting down at a random Mac (Aqua) or Windows box is easier to pick up and get going, but that does not rule out that for daily use a tuned Unix desktop environment can be much more productive than the others would ever be.
- jncraton 17y ago
  You're correct. For someone who understand usability and interface design, the ability to customize will enhance productivity. Unfortunately, most users don't understand this, so the ability to customize generally leads to clutter (see myspace).
olefoo 17y ago
> When I sit down at a Mac, I know exactly how to do everything because all the tools and utilities are organized in a way that I understand. I do not find this to be the case. (I run both Mac and Linux using synergy). I have found that I typically have to customize a Mac desktop before it is usable to me. About the same amount that I need to customise a Linux desktop. On Windows I get frustrated and irritated because things that ought to be simple are hidden away in control panels that use non-standard terminology (ie. "internet zone"). Most usability differences between OS's are matters of familiarity, there are only a few examples where minimising the cognitive load was a design goal for a piece of software. And in the case of a general purpose computer that is not an interesting goal, since a computer is supposed to become whatever you tell it to become. In other words the cognitive load of a general purpose computer is infinite, because you can always send it more instructions... The trick is to carve durable bits of functionality out of that infinity.
dkarl 17y ago
I think Macs are quite counterintuitive for people from the Windows world. I jump between: - OSX (my home box for Lightspeed/iTunes/Squeezecenter) - KDE3 (my home programming box, and my work desktop until I started using Awesome a few weeks ago) - Windows XP (my work laptop) I feel perfectly comfortable jumping between Windows and KDE3. They're basically the same logic, the same way of thinking. OSX, which I'm posting from right now, is entirely different and extremely frustrating for me. To switch to an app, I click on the same icon I used to launch it? The menu bar associated with a window lives at the top of the screen? When I focus different windows, the weird detached menu bar at the top of the screen magically changes? GUI conventions like these don't make any intrinsic sense. You're either used to them or you're not. People who are used to Windows will find the KDE3 conventions quite familiar, whereas OSX will be quite alien. Customization is a different issue. "End users" aren't likely to sit down at the desk of a customization-mad hacker. They might inadvertently screw up their own desktops, but they can do that with Windows anyway. "My entire screen is gray!" "Where did all my files go? They were here yesterday!" Except with complete computer beginners (a vanishing species) it's a relatively minor problem.
- gnaritas 17y ago
  One toolbar that's always in the same place and always fully visible rather than cropped down because the window is to small. One icon you click to use app X regardless of whether it's already open or not. This is actually a much simpler and more logical way of doing things than the Windows way, especially for a new user. The Windows way is far more complex, requires more learning to understand, and more things to remember. You just don't think of these things as extra steps because they've become so ingrained and you don't realize you're behavior is actually quite complex.
aliem 17y ago
When I sit down at someone's customized Linux machine, ... I just open a nice terminal emulator or a virtual tty and get the work done (i can do it even in osx)