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EDIT: Unbelievable. Both the title and the link to the article I commented on have been swapped from the PandoDaily article (http://pandodaily.com/2013/11/12/vi

EDIT: Unbelievable. Both the title and the link to the article I commented on have been swapped from the PandoDaily article (http://pandodaily.com/2013/11/12/vice-investigates-soylent-finds-rats-and-mold/ http://pandodaily.com/2013/11/12/vice-investigates-soylent-f...) to the Vice article which PandoDaily referred to, but that tries to give it a positive spin. This goes well beyond whatever policy pg was trying to defend recently. This is deeply manipulative. --- It looks a scam, it sounds like a scam, it's marketed like a scam and now it apparently is being produced like any other scam. So how long until we finally draw the obvious conclusion? Just because some notable VC's gambled on it doesn't make it any more credible. In fact, there is pretty much zero evidence in the credible column.

dragontamer 13y ago
It certainly isn't a scam. However, I went to an engineering school, and have met Food Engineers. Food Engineering is a difficult branch of chemical engineering. You've got regulations, you've got people's lives at stake. The Soylent guys just went at it like a hacker: because thats what they are. They're taking the "startup culture" and trying to apply it to food. And that is incredibly dangerous. Anyone who has any connection at all to the food industry knows that PEOPLE DIE IF YOU MESS THIS UP. This is NOT a "hackathon", and a SINGLE mistake can accidentally kill someone.
- nightski 13y ago
  The food industry as a whole is one big hack, even with it's fancy regulations and bureaucracy. People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. It is nice to see fresh ideas.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    The maritime industry as a whole is one big hack, even with it's fancy regulations and bureaucracy. People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. It is nice to see fresh ideas. That's why I am pitching my new great idea: submarines made of scrap steel I found in my back yard! The best part? No more hassle with pesky waves! Glide beneath the surface with the grace of an aquatic mammal. Sure, some people have built submarines before, and they say it is really difficult to get right, but my idea is fresh by virtue of it being created by me, a SV engineer! (Ignore that puncture in the test unit, somebody mishandled the shipping!)
    - dwild 13y ago
      You forget that most people use cheap submarine or even avoid submarine at all (which is even worse for them) just to save time and money. I have bad eating habits and I know multiple people who have eating habits even worse. I don't want to change that and I don't want to change my friend either, I'm fine how I live. This however is an amazing solution which is extremely easy to apply. Can you tell me the issue with Soylent? It doesn't contains everything I need right? There a fraction that I wouldn't get from it. Does I plan to use it for every meal? Why would I? I enjoy eating, it's a great activity, I don't plan to stop that. Personally I consider Soylent as a good lunch replacement, nothing more. Seriously the only issue is people who will actually believe that it's good to eat only that. I believe that it's the biggest marketing mistake Soylent made but I guess they needed that to show how they are superior to solutions like Ensure.
  - pionar 13y ago
    >People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. Wait, what? Not even anywhere near true[1]. The CDC says 3,000 people in the US die every year from foodborne illnesses. That's .1%, one-tenth of a percent. I'd say that's a pretty good track record. [1]http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/ http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/
    - berberous 13y ago
      I think he probably means things like the diabetes or obesity epidemics, which in large part are caused by the failures of the industry, and their reliance on things like HFCS.
      - smsm42 13y ago
        They are not. They are caused by unhealthy lifestyles maintained by people. It is convenient blaming everything on HFCS, but the truth is, if you eat cheeseburgers with cola daily and not expel extra calories with vigorous work, that's what is producing diabetes and obesity, not HFCS. Shifting responsibility from personal to "shady corporations made me fat" is bullshit. And, btw, the reason food industry is using HFCS is not because they are evil, but because agrisector lobbied high tariffs on sugar imports, while at the same time subsidizing corn. Which makes using HFCS produced from cheap corn practical alternative to buying sugar with its artificially inflated prices. So even if you intend to place blame of HFCS, you chose wrong industry to blame.
    - dingaling 13y ago
      EEk! Would you be content if 0.1% of US airline passengers died as a result of the airline industry each year? After all it would only be 700 per year, every year. ( Note: 2012 global airline fatalities were 475 ).
      - quesera 13y ago
        Well, GP is off by a couple orders of magnitude.. 3000 people out of a population of 310 million is 0.001%. Equivalent of 7 airline fatalities. Not so bad.
  - dragontamer 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle Learn history yo before making ignorant comments.
fredsters_s 13y ago
As a long-time beta user I can tell you that it works as described.
- MLfan 13y ago
  Have you also tried Sports Nutrition, they also have shakes and powders –some proteins, the ingredients can be similar. The whole article sounds like a fancy way to reinvent a bike. What’s new in this substitution food endeavor? One can live for 30 days on shakes and sports nutrition, or it can be used as a supplement to traditional food. One can even leave with No food at all if drinking a lot of water and juices for 30 days, some people do that. Why investing several millions in it? To create another hype?
  - dwild 13y ago
    Maybe because theses shakes are expensive and target sport or weight gain more than health?
fleitz 13y ago
Shush, they have plenty of testimonials from real customers saying it works. Soylent is a true superfood unlike scams like acai berry juice. Solves long standing dietary issues that have gone unsolved by modern medicine? Check. Helps you lose weight? Check. Saves time and money? Check. Testimonials? Check. Even people with sciency sounding backgrounds think it's good! Let me just get out my credit card and sign up for a subscription. Good bye difficult exercise and time spent preparing healthy meals, hello easy street.
- stinkytaco 13y ago
  OK, so I like cooking and eating food. I think soylent is a scam, or at the very least just another in a long line of unappetizing "diet replacement shakes". But just allow me a moment to conduct a thought experiment, or at least play devil's advocate. For years you've been walking to get where you are going and you've been plowing your fields with a couple of very high maintenance animals that are costly and risky. You've been walking out to their stalls and feeding, cleaning and otherwise dedicating lots of time and money to them. It's a lot of work. One day along comes a guy with a machine that replaces animals. Not only will it replace animals in your fields, the same machine will replace walking to get where you're going. A neighbor got it and he swears by it. Saves time and money? Check. Solves long standing issues that have gone unsolved by modern technology? Check. Helps you produce more in your fields and make more money? Check. Say goodbye to expensive and time consuming animals and sore feet, hello easy street.
  - Joona 13y ago
    You are not forced to do anything.
    - stinkytaco 13y ago
      Did you mean this reply for me? Because I don't recall mentioning forcing someone to do something. I'm just saying that one could apply a similar thought process to tools that have changed the world in radical ways, like the internal combustion engine, steam power, precision machining, electricity, etc. I understand that skepticism and in this case I share it, the number of inventions that have actually made radical changes to our world is infinitesimally small compared to the number that claim to, but the same reasoning could be applied to many past developments.
lowboy 13y ago
A scam? Hardly. The only "scammy" thing was overreaching claims about how it's "optimized perfectly" and the like. And from what I've heard, they've toned that down. We haven't cracked the human body, but there is science that supports Soylent.
- obstacle1 13y ago
  >there is science that supports Soylent. Since you made the claim, what specifically is the science that supports Soylent? I assume you can provide references to peer-reviewed stuff, given the nature of your claim, and I look forward to reading it.
  - lowboy 13y ago
    IIRC, they've been working with nutritionalists and doctors to continually check on how Soylent is affecting its testers. I'm too lazy to find the sources, so feel free to dismiss my claim.
tptacek 13y ago
I yield to no HN user in the extent and intensity of my distaste for the idea of Soylent, but the Pando article was, per Pando's charter, linkjacked clickbait that referred directly to the Vice article. It was totally reasonable --- desirable, even --- for the two articles to be switched. Would that we could simply do away with Pando altogether so that this kind of controversy might never recur.
- pyrocat 13y ago
  Yup, same thing happened with the New York Times (1995) earlier today, it was originally a linkjacking blog post.
- diogenescynic 13y ago
  It seems like censorship or manipulation when no explanation is given. Even if it is on the up and up, it'd be nice if someone could comment as to why the changes occur.
obstacle1 13y ago
I just tried to submit the investigation article, too, and the same happened to me. Worrisome. Is YCombinator invested in Soylent?
- w1ntermute 13y ago
  The CEO, Rob Rhinehart, is a YC alum.
  - obstacle1 13y ago
    Well, that makes sense. Also someone upthread mentioned that YC Partners does indeed own a stake in Soylent [1]. [1] - http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-announcement http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-anno...
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
brymaster 13y ago
> This goes well beyond whatever policy pg was trying to defend recently. This is deeply manipulative. YC has stake in Soylent (http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-announcement http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-anno...). I think people sometimes forget who's website this is they're commenting on.

dragontamer 13y ago

It certainly isn't a scam. However, I went to an engineering school, and have met Food Engineers. Food Engineering is a difficult branch of chemical engineering. You've got regulations, you've got people's lives at stake. The Soylent guys just went at it like a hacker: because thats what they are. They're taking the "startup culture" and trying to apply it to food. And that is incredibly dangerous. Anyone who has any connection at all to the food industry knows that PEOPLE DIE IF YOU MESS THIS UP. This is NOT a "hackathon", and a SINGLE mistake can accidentally kill someone.

nightski 13y ago
The food industry as a whole is one big hack, even with it's fancy regulations and bureaucracy. People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. It is nice to see fresh ideas.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  The maritime industry as a whole is one big hack, even with it's fancy regulations and bureaucracy. People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. It is nice to see fresh ideas. That's why I am pitching my new great idea: submarines made of scrap steel I found in my back yard! The best part? No more hassle with pesky waves! Glide beneath the surface with the grace of an aquatic mammal. Sure, some people have built submarines before, and they say it is really difficult to get right, but my idea is fresh by virtue of it being created by me, a SV engineer! (Ignore that puncture in the test unit, somebody mishandled the shipping!)
  - dwild 13y ago
    You forget that most people use cheap submarine or even avoid submarine at all (which is even worse for them) just to save time and money. I have bad eating habits and I know multiple people who have eating habits even worse. I don't want to change that and I don't want to change my friend either, I'm fine how I live. This however is an amazing solution which is extremely easy to apply. Can you tell me the issue with Soylent? It doesn't contains everything I need right? There a fraction that I wouldn't get from it. Does I plan to use it for every meal? Why would I? I enjoy eating, it's a great activity, I don't plan to stop that. Personally I consider Soylent as a good lunch replacement, nothing more. Seriously the only issue is people who will actually believe that it's good to eat only that. I believe that it's the biggest marketing mistake Soylent made but I guess they needed that to show how they are superior to solutions like Ensure.
- pionar 13y ago
  >People are dying constantly due to the failures of the industry. Wait, what? Not even anywhere near true[1]. The CDC says 3,000 people in the US die every year from foodborne illnesses. That's .1%, one-tenth of a percent. I'd say that's a pretty good track record. [1]http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/ http://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/
  - berberous 13y ago
    I think he probably means things like the diabetes or obesity epidemics, which in large part are caused by the failures of the industry, and their reliance on things like HFCS.
    - smsm42 13y ago
      They are not. They are caused by unhealthy lifestyles maintained by people. It is convenient blaming everything on HFCS, but the truth is, if you eat cheeseburgers with cola daily and not expel extra calories with vigorous work, that's what is producing diabetes and obesity, not HFCS. Shifting responsibility from personal to "shady corporations made me fat" is bullshit. And, btw, the reason food industry is using HFCS is not because they are evil, but because agrisector lobbied high tariffs on sugar imports, while at the same time subsidizing corn. Which makes using HFCS produced from cheap corn practical alternative to buying sugar with its artificially inflated prices. So even if you intend to place blame of HFCS, you chose wrong industry to blame.
  - dingaling 13y ago
    EEk! Would you be content if 0.1% of US airline passengers died as a result of the airline industry each year? After all it would only be 700 per year, every year. ( Note: 2012 global airline fatalities were 475 ).
    - quesera 13y ago
      Well, GP is off by a couple orders of magnitude.. 3000 people out of a population of 310 million is 0.001%. Equivalent of 7 airline fatalities. Not so bad.
- dragontamer 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jungle Learn history yo before making ignorant comments.

fredsters_s 13y ago

As a long-time beta user I can tell you that it works as described.

MLfan 13y ago
Have you also tried Sports Nutrition, they also have shakes and powders –some proteins, the ingredients can be similar. The whole article sounds like a fancy way to reinvent a bike. What’s new in this substitution food endeavor? One can live for 30 days on shakes and sports nutrition, or it can be used as a supplement to traditional food. One can even leave with No food at all if drinking a lot of water and juices for 30 days, some people do that. Why investing several millions in it? To create another hype?
- dwild 13y ago
  Maybe because theses shakes are expensive and target sport or weight gain more than health?

fleitz 13y ago

Shush, they have plenty of testimonials from real customers saying it works. Soylent is a true superfood unlike scams like acai berry juice. Solves long standing dietary issues that have gone unsolved by modern medicine? Check. Helps you lose weight? Check. Saves time and money? Check. Testimonials? Check. Even people with sciency sounding backgrounds think it's good! Let me just get out my credit card and sign up for a subscription. Good bye difficult exercise and time spent preparing healthy meals, hello easy street.

stinkytaco 13y ago
OK, so I like cooking and eating food. I think soylent is a scam, or at the very least just another in a long line of unappetizing "diet replacement shakes". But just allow me a moment to conduct a thought experiment, or at least play devil's advocate. For years you've been walking to get where you are going and you've been plowing your fields with a couple of very high maintenance animals that are costly and risky. You've been walking out to their stalls and feeding, cleaning and otherwise dedicating lots of time and money to them. It's a lot of work. One day along comes a guy with a machine that replaces animals. Not only will it replace animals in your fields, the same machine will replace walking to get where you're going. A neighbor got it and he swears by it. Saves time and money? Check. Solves long standing issues that have gone unsolved by modern technology? Check. Helps you produce more in your fields and make more money? Check. Say goodbye to expensive and time consuming animals and sore feet, hello easy street.
- Joona 13y ago
  You are not forced to do anything.
  - stinkytaco 13y ago
    Did you mean this reply for me? Because I don't recall mentioning forcing someone to do something. I'm just saying that one could apply a similar thought process to tools that have changed the world in radical ways, like the internal combustion engine, steam power, precision machining, electricity, etc. I understand that skepticism and in this case I share it, the number of inventions that have actually made radical changes to our world is infinitesimally small compared to the number that claim to, but the same reasoning could be applied to many past developments.

lowboy 13y ago

A scam? Hardly. The only "scammy" thing was overreaching claims about how it's "optimized perfectly" and the like. And from what I've heard, they've toned that down. We haven't cracked the human body, but there is science that supports Soylent.

obstacle1 13y ago
>there is science that supports Soylent. Since you made the claim, what specifically is the science that supports Soylent? I assume you can provide references to peer-reviewed stuff, given the nature of your claim, and I look forward to reading it.
- lowboy 13y ago
  IIRC, they've been working with nutritionalists and doctors to continually check on how Soylent is affecting its testers. I'm too lazy to find the sources, so feel free to dismiss my claim.

tptacek 13y ago

I yield to no HN user in the extent and intensity of my distaste for the idea of Soylent, but the Pando article was, per Pando's charter, linkjacked clickbait that referred directly to the Vice article. It was totally reasonable --- desirable, even --- for the two articles to be switched. Would that we could simply do away with Pando altogether so that this kind of controversy might never recur.

pyrocat 13y ago
Yup, same thing happened with the New York Times (1995) earlier today, it was originally a linkjacking blog post.
diogenescynic 13y ago
It seems like censorship or manipulation when no explanation is given. Even if it is on the up and up, it'd be nice if someone could comment as to why the changes occur.

obstacle1 13y ago

I just tried to submit the investigation article, too, and the same happened to me. Worrisome. Is YCombinator invested in Soylent?

w1ntermute 13y ago
The CEO, Rob Rhinehart, is a YC alum.
- obstacle1 13y ago
  Well, that makes sense. Also someone upthread mentioned that YC Partners does indeed own a stake in Soylent [1]. [1] - http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-announcement http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-anno...

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

brymaster 13y ago

> This goes well beyond whatever policy pg was trying to defend recently. This is deeply manipulative. YC has stake in Soylent (http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-announcement http://blog.soylent.me/post/64789154918/soylent-funding-anno...). I think people sometimes forget who's website this is they're commenting on.