4 ms·

> but I guarantee every single person on HN will rather take the chance of malaria than the certainty of not being born in the first place. Perhaps that's true

> but I guarantee every single person on HN will rather take the chance of malaria than the certainty of not being born in the first place. Perhaps that's true. But what about kids in all the destitute places on the planet? Using an average HN user as your test case just shows how biased your perspective is. Personally I'd rather not be born than be born in a place where I have a high change of dying of malaria, or dysentery.

tptacek 13y ago
Exactly how is it relevant that you would rather not be born than be born in rural poverty? Congratulations. Nobody asked you, or anybody else. Now what?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- selmnoo 13y ago
  > Nobody asked you, or anybody else. Huh? And nobody asked you to reply to his comment. My goodness tptacek, this is a discussion board. Open-ended conversations take place here that drift off to all places. Sometimes they lead to interesting points, sometimes they don't. I see no reason to mock someone for that.
  - lifeisstillgood 13y ago
    if Tptacek had said "nobody asked you " I would agree. But he said nobody asked you or anyone else. None of us chose to be born, nor born into the circumstances we find ourselves. As we cannot control if we win or lose the lottery of western luxury or extreme poverty, those on the winning side should say "let's fix this" not "well if I was that unlucky I would rather be dead, so why can't they all just die and leave me alone" which is rather the undercurrent I was reading.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  Perhaps if you dusted off the old reading comprehension you would realize I was responding specifically to the claim that nobody on HN would X. I am someone on HN therefore my counter-point was very relevant.
narrowingorbits 13y ago
> I'd rather not be born than be born in a place where I have a high change of dying of malaria, or dysentery. Seriously? You prefer a 0% chance, over, say, a 60% chance? But then I'd jump at the offer of a 4% chance of making it over a 0% chance any day, so I guess it's just a different mindset.
- vacri 13y ago
  The 0% chance is simply not existing. The people who fail the 60% chance (or your 4% chance) live lives of pain and misery. Perhaps talk to someone seeking euthanasia about whether life in pain and misery is worth living?
  - encoderer 13y ago
    Ok, ask the people who have already decided that, for them, it's not. But you don't exactly see millions of people offing themselves, so clearly the human spirit survives such adverse conditions?
    - hackinthebochs 13y ago
      Dying and never being born are two wildly different things.
      - nl 13y ago
        Unfortunately it is currently difficult to ask the unborn, so you do one of two things: 1) Rely on their prospective parents decision. To improve the parents decision making you attempt to improve their education and increase access to contraception. 2) Enforce laws about how many children a couple can have. Most places have followed method (1). China followed method (2) (but also increased education). Both methods seem to have resulted in dramatically better standards of living in less than a generation, and many people from drastically poor areas have gone on to live fulfilling lives. Indeed some have accomplished more than I ever will - for example, the greatest distance runner of all time[1] grew up as 1 of 10 children of subsistence farmers during the Ethiopian 83-85 famine[2]. You can't get much deeper in poverty than that, and yet he won 2 Olympic Gold medals, 8 World Championships and broke 27 world records. I'm unconvinced he would think he should never have been born. Also - as the linked article shows - it is possible to tackle problems like malaria relatively easily and cheaply, if there is the will for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9385_famine_in_Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9385_famine_in_Ethi...

tptacek 13y ago

Exactly how is it relevant that you would rather not be born than be born in rural poverty? Congratulations. Nobody asked you, or anybody else. Now what?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
selmnoo 13y ago
> Nobody asked you, or anybody else. Huh? And nobody asked you to reply to his comment. My goodness tptacek, this is a discussion board. Open-ended conversations take place here that drift off to all places. Sometimes they lead to interesting points, sometimes they don't. I see no reason to mock someone for that.
- lifeisstillgood 13y ago
  if Tptacek had said "nobody asked you " I would agree. But he said nobody asked you or anyone else. None of us chose to be born, nor born into the circumstances we find ourselves. As we cannot control if we win or lose the lottery of western luxury or extreme poverty, those on the winning side should say "let's fix this" not "well if I was that unlucky I would rather be dead, so why can't they all just die and leave me alone" which is rather the undercurrent I was reading.
hackinthebochs 13y ago
Perhaps if you dusted off the old reading comprehension you would realize I was responding specifically to the claim that nobody on HN would X. I am someone on HN therefore my counter-point was very relevant.

narrowingorbits 13y ago

> I'd rather not be born than be born in a place where I have a high change of dying of malaria, or dysentery. Seriously? You prefer a 0% chance, over, say, a 60% chance? But then I'd jump at the offer of a 4% chance of making it over a 0% chance any day, so I guess it's just a different mindset.

vacri 13y ago
The 0% chance is simply not existing. The people who fail the 60% chance (or your 4% chance) live lives of pain and misery. Perhaps talk to someone seeking euthanasia about whether life in pain and misery is worth living?
- encoderer 13y ago
  Ok, ask the people who have already decided that, for them, it's not. But you don't exactly see millions of people offing themselves, so clearly the human spirit survives such adverse conditions?
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    Dying and never being born are two wildly different things.
    - nl 13y ago
      Unfortunately it is currently difficult to ask the unborn, so you do one of two things: 1) Rely on their prospective parents decision. To improve the parents decision making you attempt to improve their education and increase access to contraception. 2) Enforce laws about how many children a couple can have. Most places have followed method (1). China followed method (2) (but also increased education). Both methods seem to have resulted in dramatically better standards of living in less than a generation, and many people from drastically poor areas have gone on to live fulfilling lives. Indeed some have accomplished more than I ever will - for example, the greatest distance runner of all time[1] grew up as 1 of 10 children of subsistence farmers during the Ethiopian 83-85 famine[2]. You can't get much deeper in poverty than that, and yet he won 2 Olympic Gold medals, 8 World Championships and broke 27 world records. I'm unconvinced he would think he should never have been born. Also - as the linked article shows - it is possible to tackle problems like malaria relatively easily and cheaply, if there is the will for it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haile_Gebrselassie [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9385_famine_in_Ethiopia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983%E2%80%9385_famine_in_Ethi...