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>The Matrix is a great movie but a poor expression of Baudrillard's philosophy. The Matrix is quite straightforward, there's no confusion, no paradox: you're ei

>The Matrix is a great movie but a poor expression of Baudrillard's philosophy. The Matrix is quite straightforward, there's no confusion, no paradox: you're either in the Matrix, or you're in the real world. You may not know you're in the Matrix, but that doesn't change the fact that you are, or are not, in it. This is incorrect - in fact there is a very reasonable explanation that the Matrix is three levels, and what looks like the real world is just another level of the matrix. This is why Neo's abilities bleed over into the real world. That is the version that most closely aligns to Baudrillard's philosophy.

BillyMaize 13y ago
Wow I was always confused by the ending of the last Matrix movie how Neo did what he did, now I must look up peoples ideas of what the ending really meant.
- cturner 13y ago
  _The Thirteenth Floor_ was released same year as the Matrix. I think it's a better execution of the same idea.
  - intrazoo 13y ago
    World on a Wire is an adaptation of the same book directed by Rainer Werner Fassbinder (the greatest director of all time), and is definitely worth checking out.
    - cturner 13y ago
      Thank you.
- fossuser 13y ago
  The matrix ending could have been great - if it ended up being that they were never really out of the matrix. That the human need for choice part of the equation was taken into account by the machines and allowed them to think they've broken free (or were fighting a war) when they were never really free. Neo could have been the extremely rare corner case among millions of cycles that figures out they're not really out. Instead the movie baked in religious overtones and went the supernatural route (basically invalidating everything they set up in the universe in the first place).
  - gknoy 13y ago
    I think that, ultimately, most viewers would rather have a movie that presents a picture of humans having a chance at triumph, rather than one where the truth of the story is that we cannot win (because the computer overlords are merely simulating our win to placate us). The latter is far, far more dystopian. Interestingly, the Thirteenth Floor did a pretty good job of that overall premise (sims inside sims), but without the dystopian overtones.
diminoten 13y ago
That's what he's saying, though. You're either in the Matrix or you're not. Neo still has powers, ergo you're still in the Matrix. That's it. Neo can see even though he's blind? Still in the Matrix. No twist, no paradox, no confusion - there was an extra layer.
frezik 13y ago
I never liked that particular interpretation. It was too obvious and had been done better elsewhere. I preferred an alternative explanation, where The One actually comes in two parts, a program in the matrix, and a human in the real world with a direct neuro link to that program. Neo's powers are expressed in the real world because he still has a direct link to the machines. http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-the-matrix-trilogy-from-a-man-machine-interface-perspective/ http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-th... I liked the sequels a lot better once I read that. They're still not genius cinema, but they're better.
- jules 13y ago
  This explanation is less elegant because it requires different laws of physics in the matrix real world than our world. "a direct neuro link to the machines" doesn't do anything to explain why neo has telekinetic abilities in the "real" world.
  - frezik 13y ago
    Neo only uses his powers against machines, shutting down the sentinels at the end of Reloaded, blowing stuff up on the way into the Machine City, and in being able to see Smith's alter-ego in the real world. None of that is incompatible with having a wireless transceiver in his brain.
    - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
      It's never mentioned he has a wireless transceiver in his brain. He has a wired one, but not a wireless one.
      - frezik 13y ago
        There's nothing to contradict it, either; not all the plot points have to be served up on a nice dinner plate. If it fits nicer than the matrix-within-a-matrix theories, then might as well go with that.
    - 13y ago
PhasmaFelis 13y ago
Someone on a gaming forum wrote a lovely bit of fiction in which "the Matrix" is layer one, "the desert of the Real" is layer two, and you're reading a brief overview of the system written by someone on layer six. He and his colleagues are pretty sure that they're in the final, real world, but they're not making any assumptions, and research is ongoing...
- khafra 13y ago
  If you find the link, I'm interested. In the meantime, here's the very related Finale of the Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5389450/ http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5389450/
  - PhasmaFelis 13y ago
    Found it! Note that it's part of a greater thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666317-Bizarre-Fan-theory-for-people-to-knock-holes-in&p=16171126#post16171126 http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666317-Bizarre-Fan-theor...

BillyMaize 13y ago

Wow I was always confused by the ending of the last Matrix movie how Neo did what he did, now I must look up peoples ideas of what the ending really meant.

cturner 13y ago
_The Thirteenth Floor_ was released same year as the Matrix. I think it's a better execution of the same idea.
- intrazoo 13y ago
  World on a Wire is an adaptation of the same book directed by Rainer Werner Fassbinder (the greatest director of all time), and is definitely worth checking out.
  - cturner 13y ago
    Thank you.
fossuser 13y ago
The matrix ending could have been great - if it ended up being that they were never really out of the matrix. That the human need for choice part of the equation was taken into account by the machines and allowed them to think they've broken free (or were fighting a war) when they were never really free. Neo could have been the extremely rare corner case among millions of cycles that figures out they're not really out. Instead the movie baked in religious overtones and went the supernatural route (basically invalidating everything they set up in the universe in the first place).
- gknoy 13y ago
  I think that, ultimately, most viewers would rather have a movie that presents a picture of humans having a chance at triumph, rather than one where the truth of the story is that we cannot win (because the computer overlords are merely simulating our win to placate us). The latter is far, far more dystopian. Interestingly, the Thirteenth Floor did a pretty good job of that overall premise (sims inside sims), but without the dystopian overtones.

diminoten 13y ago

That's what he's saying, though. You're either in the Matrix or you're not. Neo still has powers, ergo you're still in the Matrix. That's it. Neo can see even though he's blind? Still in the Matrix. No twist, no paradox, no confusion - there was an extra layer.

frezik 13y ago

I never liked that particular interpretation. It was too obvious and had been done better elsewhere. I preferred an alternative explanation, where The One actually comes in two parts, a program in the matrix, and a human in the real world with a direct neuro link to that program. Neo's powers are expressed in the real world because he still has a direct link to the machines. http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-the-matrix-trilogy-from-a-man-machine-interface-perspective/ http://www.cyberpunkreview.com/movie/essays/understanding-th... I liked the sequels a lot better once I read that. They're still not genius cinema, but they're better.

jules 13y ago
This explanation is less elegant because it requires different laws of physics in the matrix real world than our world. "a direct neuro link to the machines" doesn't do anything to explain why neo has telekinetic abilities in the "real" world.
- frezik 13y ago
  Neo only uses his powers against machines, shutting down the sentinels at the end of Reloaded, blowing stuff up on the way into the Machine City, and in being able to see Smith's alter-ego in the real world. None of that is incompatible with having a wireless transceiver in his brain.
  - ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
    It's never mentioned he has a wireless transceiver in his brain. He has a wired one, but not a wireless one.
    - frezik 13y ago
      There's nothing to contradict it, either; not all the plot points have to be served up on a nice dinner plate. If it fits nicer than the matrix-within-a-matrix theories, then might as well go with that.
  - 13y ago

PhasmaFelis 13y ago

Someone on a gaming forum wrote a lovely bit of fiction in which "the Matrix" is layer one, "the desert of the Real" is layer two, and you're reading a brief overview of the system written by someone on layer six. He and his colleagues are pretty sure that they're in the final, real world, but they're not making any assumptions, and research is ongoing...

khafra 13y ago
If you find the link, I'm interested. In the meantime, here's the very related Finale of the Ultimate Meta Mega Crossover: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5389450/ http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5389450/
- PhasmaFelis 13y ago
  Found it! Note that it's part of a greater thread: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666317-Bizarre-Fan-theory-for-people-to-knock-holes-in&p=16171126#post16171126 http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?666317-Bizarre-Fan-theor...