4 ms·

If the low paying, menial jobs are indeed essential, why are they low paying? Do the people working these jobs currently really have a choice? Is that morally j

by polarix 13y ago

If the low paying, menial jobs are indeed essential, why are they low paying? Do the people working these jobs currently really have a choice? Is that morally justifiable?

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
They're low paying largely because the capitalist class uses both brute force and state power (union-busting is a premier example) to systematically suppress the price of labor.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  What kind of brute force are you talking about? If people want to unionize they are free to do so. But business owners should be free to ignore unions if they wish and use force if unions decide to occupy the business private property as protected by the constitution. They are free to stop working and protest but business owners should be free to replace them if they can. None of the parties however should be allowed to steal from the other's property and if it happens they should be able to ask the state for protection of their belonging.
  - eli_gottlieb 13y ago
    >What kind of brute force are you talking about? Guns, thugs, police, arrests. That kind[1]. >If people want to unionize they are free to do so. Well they're not[2]. [1] -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_squad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_squad [2] -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-busting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-busting Oh, and then there's the issue that property in the means of production is itself a relation created by the capitalist state, as are the modes of its organization (ie: joint-stock companies instead of commons trusts or workers' cooperatives).
weddpros 13y ago
It's all a matter of skills, and scarcity. These jobs are low paying because competition is high between low-skilled candidates: "if you don't want to mob the floor, you're fired, I'll find someone else". Do these people have a choice ? They usually have a choice between many low paying jobs. Is it morally justifiable? If you believe meritocracy is a bad thing, then no. If you think it's a good thing, then low paying low-skilled jobs are just a fact.

by polarix 13y ago

If the low paying, menial jobs are indeed essential, why are they low paying? Do the people working these jobs currently really have a choice? Is that morally justifiable?

eli_gottlieb 13y ago

They're low paying largely because the capitalist class uses both brute force and state power (union-busting is a premier example) to systematically suppress the price of labor.

patrickaljord 13y ago
What kind of brute force are you talking about? If people want to unionize they are free to do so. But business owners should be free to ignore unions if they wish and use force if unions decide to occupy the business private property as protected by the constitution. They are free to stop working and protest but business owners should be free to replace them if they can. None of the parties however should be allowed to steal from the other's property and if it happens they should be able to ask the state for protection of their belonging.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  >What kind of brute force are you talking about? Guns, thugs, police, arrests. That kind[1]. >If people want to unionize they are free to do so. Well they're not[2]. [1] -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_squad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_squad [2] -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-busting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-busting Oh, and then there's the issue that property in the means of production is itself a relation created by the capitalist state, as are the modes of its organization (ie: joint-stock companies instead of commons trusts or workers' cooperatives).

weddpros 13y ago

It's all a matter of skills, and scarcity. These jobs are low paying because competition is high between low-skilled candidates: "if you don't want to mob the floor, you're fired, I'll find someone else". Do these people have a choice ? They usually have a choice between many low paying jobs. Is it morally justifiable? If you believe meritocracy is a bad thing, then no. If you think it's a good thing, then low paying low-skilled jobs are just a fact.