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Interesting discussion, a pity HN is not made for long conversations. Political system are a complicated beast. We all watch the same movies, buy the same stuf

by kfk 13y ago

Interesting discussion, a pity HN is not made for long conversations. Political system are a complicated beast. We all watch the same movies, buy the same stuff, but, somehow, vote in completely different ways. I think it's because of how incentives are set in the respective countries. They are not really culture, but just something that's there and it is very difficult to remove. For example, the Italian systems protects pharmacies (you can have only 1 each xyz inhabitants). But the Danish system protects its economy taxing cars 180%. The principle behind those 2 policies is the same (the State can and has to affect the economy), yet the incentive this creates and the impacts on the economy are very different.

Brakenshire 13y ago
> Political system are a complicated beast. We all watch the same movies, buy the same stuff, but, somehow, vote in completely different ways. I think it's because of how incentives are set in the respective countries. They are not really culture, but just something that's there and it is very difficult to remove. I take your point, although arguably institutional memory is an important part of culture, especially given the cultural norms which build up intertwined with those organizations. Even beyond institutions, though, I'd say there are still very significant differences. My understanding is that Berlusconi does well partly because people admire his lad-ish lifestyle (fast cars, 18 year old supermodels, etc). Whereas in many other countries his attitude, and level of consumption would be considered vulgar. Berlusconi doesn't just get in because of the electoral system, a lot of people in Italy must like him. And elsewhere in Europe he is simply not liked. Obviously, that's just one example. I don't mean to pick out Italy in particular.
- kfk 13y ago
  As I am Italian (who never voted Berlusconi), let me say that Berlusconi is not about the ladies and the fast cars, but a lot about a weak, very weak, alternative (a very shitty left wing). Italy is a conservative, right wing, country and Berlusconi was the only leader in that area for 20 years. How this happened and why will take too long to explain. Yes, you have a point that Berlusconi is a sort of cultural difference. But to be sure of that, we shall put Danes in Italy for 10 years and see what they vote after that period. Yes, institutional memory is a cultural "feature", but for me "culture" is more the day to day of people, what do they laugh at? What are they aspirations? Dreams? What do they buy? Do they travel? Do they like sunny beaches (ie: Chinese don't like sunny beaches, here you have a cultural difference...)? Etc. In this, in EU we are very, very, similar.

by kfk 13y ago

Brakenshire 13y ago

> Political system are a complicated beast. We all watch the same movies, buy the same stuff, but, somehow, vote in completely different ways. I think it's because of how incentives are set in the respective countries. They are not really culture, but just something that's there and it is very difficult to remove. I take your point, although arguably institutional memory is an important part of culture, especially given the cultural norms which build up intertwined with those organizations. Even beyond institutions, though, I'd say there are still very significant differences. My understanding is that Berlusconi does well partly because people admire his lad-ish lifestyle (fast cars, 18 year old supermodels, etc). Whereas in many other countries his attitude, and level of consumption would be considered vulgar. Berlusconi doesn't just get in because of the electoral system, a lot of people in Italy must like him. And elsewhere in Europe he is simply not liked. Obviously, that's just one example. I don't mean to pick out Italy in particular.

kfk 13y ago
As I am Italian (who never voted Berlusconi), let me say that Berlusconi is not about the ladies and the fast cars, but a lot about a weak, very weak, alternative (a very shitty left wing). Italy is a conservative, right wing, country and Berlusconi was the only leader in that area for 20 years. How this happened and why will take too long to explain. Yes, you have a point that Berlusconi is a sort of cultural difference. But to be sure of that, we shall put Danes in Italy for 10 years and see what they vote after that period. Yes, institutional memory is a cultural "feature", but for me "culture" is more the day to day of people, what do they laugh at? What are they aspirations? Dreams? What do they buy? Do they travel? Do they like sunny beaches (ie: Chinese don't like sunny beaches, here you have a cultural difference...)? Etc. In this, in EU we are very, very, similar.