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Am I the only one who thought the UI was surprisingly good, for being autogenerated? I'm not a CMS expert, but it looks fairly similar to something that mind co
by shanemhansen 13y ago
Am I the only one who thought the UI was surprisingly good, for being autogenerated? I'm not a CMS expert, but it looks fairly similar to something that mind come out of django's admin.
If a framework can give you that kind of a UI "for free" before you start working on customizing it, that's pretty interesting.
OTOH, I'll join the crowd in chuckling at their scaling problems. The funny thing is PHP is absolutely excellent for scaling. Call it a one trick bastardized pony, but if there's one thing PHP does well it's serving dynamic HTML pages using a mysql database while being 100% stateless. It's framework bloat that causes abominations like Magento.
Check out http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r7&hw=i7&test=query http://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r7&hw=i7... raw PHP shows up in the top 10, shoulder to shoulder with java, scala, and c++. To compare apples to apples (web frameworks), a popular php framework called codeignitor shows up about 35 spots ahead of something called "stripped rails" I'm not sure where fully clothed rails shows up because counting rows in that table is a PITA.
Call it a fractal of bad design and I won't blink twice (especially considering the latest fun I had with the fact that building a query string from an associative array is a third party library while splitting a query string into an associative array is builtin), but compare its performance to literally any other scripting language (including our beloved openresty nginx + lua stack).
PHP does one thing very well, I seem to remember that being part of something called "The UNIX philosophy".
Full disclaimer:
1. I hate writing PHP, the best way to write PHP is to avoid
stepping on land mines and use interfaces, OOP, and closures.
2. I write PHP (and golang) for a living, but have
professionally written python, java, perl, and TCL at various
times. I'm also doing everything I can to get away from PHP
while maintaining business continuity (mustache for views, new
services in go).
</rambling>
[edit] formatting and grammer.
- debacle 13y agoI don't think this post is shitting on PHP - Symfony, Laravel, Fuel, etc, all produce better content manipulation screens than Drupal does. Drupal's ecosystem has a lot of problems, the biggest of which being that they can no longer attract the kind of deveopers that are willing to fix the problems endemic to the ecosystem.
- ceejayoz 13y ago> I don't think this post is shitting on PHP - Symfony, Laravel, Fuel, etc, all produce better content manipulation screens than Drupal does. No, they don't. They don't produce them at all - that's left to the developer. It's entirely possible to make a totally custom form UI in Drupal just like in Symfony et al. It just comes out-of-the-box with a default one.
- debacle 13y agoI guess you're not familiar with the CRUD generation tools present in almost every PHP framework since 2008?
- ceejayoz 13y agoFind one that lets you say "I just want an image upload field here" via a single button like Drupal does and we'll talk. Drupal's doing a lot more than your average scaffold.
- davvolun 13y agoI'm still trying to figure out why we're comparing frameworks like Symfony to a CMS like Drupal. If I want something that gives me an image upload tool without writing any code, I might choose Drupal. If I want something that doesn't even have any concept of 'images', because my application doesn't deal with images at all, then I'll use a framework (like Symfony) to build my app.
- debacle 13y agoSymfony has had that functionality since 1.1, and all it requires is a one line yaml change.
- ceejayoz 13y agoEither I've missed massive parts of Symfony or we're not talking about remotely the same thing. Look at the Drupal screenshot in the article. It'd a full on widget, with add/remove controls, multiple upload, drag-to-reorder, etc. all with a couple clicks. I've used a wide variety of PHP frameworks and none of them do that sort of stuff with a line of YAML. Comparing the default node form of Drupal to a completely custom UI built in a framework is absurd.
- Pxtl 13y agoYeah, I have to agree. I made a Drupal-based website before I knew anything about PHP or web-development, a site based on user-contributed content. Drupal let me design the limitations on the content users could contribute, control the strategy for what gets promoted to the front page (and which users get permissions to push stuff to the front page), divvy up content into a variety of taxonomy with completely different structure (maps/mods/scripts/content for a game), provide comment-moderation tools to users, etc. Yes, it was kind of ugly, but consider I didn't write a single line of code... no css, no javascript, no php, no sql, nothing but HTML content? That's pretty slick. I'm no longer involved with the site we built (http://quadropolis.us http://quadropolis.us), but it still has an active userbase and has a beautiful hoard of stuff (although I'm a little disappointed they've conflated maps and model content now).