4 ms·

The choice of default is meaningless for browsers, even if you had it, because the only browser that exists on iOS is Safari. Yes, you might be able to downloa

by pyalot2 13y ago

The choice of default is meaningless for browsers, even if you had it, because the only browser that exists on iOS is Safari. Yes, you might be able to download something called "Chrome" or "Firefox", but what you're getting isn't those browsers. What you're getting is iOS Safari the browser, with the interface around it replaced by Google or Mozilla. This is because Apples TOS forbid you from creating a program that downloads and executes code from the internet to drive your application, which basically means no downloading html/JS and no "executing" html by rendering it, or running JS. And this is the really criminal part, the default choice, that's just the icing on the cake.

magicalist 13y ago
I originally came to a similar line of reasoning as you, but I've found a surprising number of people use Chrome on iOS. It's probably not large in relative terms, but they are out there. The primary benefit seems to be being able to sync their browser with their phone, which I do find handy on Android, so I can see the appeal. Obviously if you use Safari on your desktop machine, you're then doubly invested in using mobile safari. Often javascript execution isn't the bottleneck anyway, network is, so interpreted JS can be good enough (maybe at least if you don't know what you're missing out on when it does hurt you).
- pyalot2 13y ago
  If you think of a browser as "just this thing that renders the page", you're correct, it's basically irrelevant how it technically is implemented. However that'd be a very poor view of what a browser is. A browser is the platform, the runtime if you will, that lets us build applications on the internet. The first browser was pretty much good at nothing but rendering bits of text, shortly followed by images, and it grew from there. Today browsers have a myriad of capabilities that make exciting applications on the internet possible, such as: CSS transitions, CSS animations, CSS gradients, CSS calc, html5, WebGL, Web Audio Data, media streaming data, video elements, audio elements, binary data handling, object URLs, zip URLs, binary data requesting, cross origin resources sharing, WebSockets, WebRTC, realtime video/audio capture/encoding/transmission/decoding/playback, and so forth. This are features of the "browser engine implementation". And not all browsers implement the same features. For instance take iOS safari which lacked the CSS capability for position:fixed and usable overflow:scroll handling until just about a year ago. All browsers in 1997 already implemented this flawlessly, and correctly. But for whatever reason, Apple didn't until more than a decade after the inception of that feature. Similarly other features aren't implemented, too numerous to list, save for the one that annoys me personally most, that is WebGL. A similar situation was evident on the desktop internet in the time period between 1998 and 2004, where Internet Explorer 6 ruled supreme. But other browsers (chiefly Firefox) offered a different implementation, and hence put Microsoft under pressure to improve internet explorer if they wish to stay relevant. The same kind of pressure cannot be exerted on Apples iOS browser, because you're forbidden from exercising it. This is bad for the Web, it's bad for me and it's bad for you. Unsurmountable barriers to competition are always bad for everybody, except the one building the barrier.
  - czr80 13y ago
    Your analogy to IE6 isn't clear, because Apple has a clear incentive to keep its browser competitive with browsers on Android.
    - pyalot2 13y ago
      The incentive to keep iOS safari competitive with Android browsers isn't as strong, as it would be if iOS Safari would have to compete with browsers on the same platform. Significantly, the lack of features on iOS Safari, which might be present on Android, makes using these features equally infeasible just as effectively. Nobody wants a mobile webapp that only works on Android. Lastly, the health of the web should not be governed by the rise and fall of mobile operating systems. Android or iOS may rise or fall, and with it, competitive pressure for the predominant browser vendor would change.
esolyt 13y ago
I agree but even now it's not meaningless. A browser isn't just a rendering engine. I use Chrome on iOS for several reasons (Bookmark sync, Tab sync, better interface). Being able to set the default browser and the default maps app would be good start for Apple.

by pyalot2 13y ago

magicalist 13y ago

I originally came to a similar line of reasoning as you, but I've found a surprising number of people use Chrome on iOS. It's probably not large in relative terms, but they are out there. The primary benefit seems to be being able to sync their browser with their phone, which I do find handy on Android, so I can see the appeal. Obviously if you use Safari on your desktop machine, you're then doubly invested in using mobile safari. Often javascript execution isn't the bottleneck anyway, network is, so interpreted JS can be good enough (maybe at least if you don't know what you're missing out on when it does hurt you).

pyalot2 13y ago
If you think of a browser as "just this thing that renders the page", you're correct, it's basically irrelevant how it technically is implemented. However that'd be a very poor view of what a browser is. A browser is the platform, the runtime if you will, that lets us build applications on the internet. The first browser was pretty much good at nothing but rendering bits of text, shortly followed by images, and it grew from there. Today browsers have a myriad of capabilities that make exciting applications on the internet possible, such as: CSS transitions, CSS animations, CSS gradients, CSS calc, html5, WebGL, Web Audio Data, media streaming data, video elements, audio elements, binary data handling, object URLs, zip URLs, binary data requesting, cross origin resources sharing, WebSockets, WebRTC, realtime video/audio capture/encoding/transmission/decoding/playback, and so forth. This are features of the "browser engine implementation". And not all browsers implement the same features. For instance take iOS safari which lacked the CSS capability for position:fixed and usable overflow:scroll handling until just about a year ago. All browsers in 1997 already implemented this flawlessly, and correctly. But for whatever reason, Apple didn't until more than a decade after the inception of that feature. Similarly other features aren't implemented, too numerous to list, save for the one that annoys me personally most, that is WebGL. A similar situation was evident on the desktop internet in the time period between 1998 and 2004, where Internet Explorer 6 ruled supreme. But other browsers (chiefly Firefox) offered a different implementation, and hence put Microsoft under pressure to improve internet explorer if they wish to stay relevant. The same kind of pressure cannot be exerted on Apples iOS browser, because you're forbidden from exercising it. This is bad for the Web, it's bad for me and it's bad for you. Unsurmountable barriers to competition are always bad for everybody, except the one building the barrier.
- czr80 13y ago
  Your analogy to IE6 isn't clear, because Apple has a clear incentive to keep its browser competitive with browsers on Android.
  - pyalot2 13y ago
    The incentive to keep iOS safari competitive with Android browsers isn't as strong, as it would be if iOS Safari would have to compete with browsers on the same platform. Significantly, the lack of features on iOS Safari, which might be present on Android, makes using these features equally infeasible just as effectively. Nobody wants a mobile webapp that only works on Android. Lastly, the health of the web should not be governed by the rise and fall of mobile operating systems. Android or iOS may rise or fall, and with it, competitive pressure for the predominant browser vendor would change.

esolyt 13y ago

I agree but even now it's not meaningless. A browser isn't just a rendering engine. I use Chrome on iOS for several reasons (Bookmark sync, Tab sync, better interface). Being able to set the default browser and the default maps app would be good start for Apple.