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> This is stupid... [there are too many, they are all interconnected]. Really? Ever tried to get in shape? There's always that first step. Also -- quoting some

> This is stupid... [there are too many, they are all interconnected]. Really? Ever tried to get in shape? There's always that first step. Also -- quoting someone here who, whatever his faults, did get rid of a lot of american colonial bullshit -- it does not matter how slowly you go, so long as you do not stop. It is very clear that you are a beltway product, and I eagerly anticipate never doing business with you, never inviting you to a convention, and never taking your money. Because the guy behind you is getting impatient. NEXT!

theboss 13y ago
I didn't try to get in shape actually, I succeeded. On topic though I don't even know what you're talking about. There are plenty of other mathematicians lined up to work for the government from thousands of schools around the country. There are plenty of PhDs in DC/MD/Va who have no problem taking the money at a R&D Firm or at the University they teach at. As long as the NSA shells out money then smart people will take it.
- snth 13y ago
  This isn't a dichotomy: "no one will work with the NSA" or "this is totally pointless". This approach can at least decrease the quality of people the NSA has working with them, specifically to people who can't get funding another way.
cschmidt 13y ago
I came across that quote earlier today (on http://slowtravels.tumblr.com/ http://slowtravels.tumblr.com/), attributed to Confucius. Who do you think it is by? “It does not matter how slow you go so long as you do not stop.” — Wisdom of Confucius
- jlgreco 13y ago
  A shame Confucius and Zeno never got a chance to sit down and hash things out. That would make for an interesting dialog.
pmorici 13y ago
Like it or not Silicon Valley is a beltway product too. It's genesis was in the huge amounts of money that the government showered on universities and companies in the area during the 60's and 70's. They've diversified some since but there are still plenty of companies that are supported by it Palantir for example http://www.palantir.com/solutions/ http://www.palantir.com/solutions/
- jlgreco 13y ago
  So? I honestly don't know what your point is here. This isn't some sort of "'free market' vs 'government', and who gets credit for various achievements" discussion.
  - pmorici 13y ago
    The point is that the valley isn't an innocent victim here they have in the past and still do facilitate the surveillance state. To act as if refusing to deal with anyone involved would only mean uninviting some government employees from a few conferences and black balling a collection of beltway bandits is naive. The uncomfortable truth is that you would probably have to stop dealing with a lot more people and companies than you would be comfortable with.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Consider the possibility of blackballing anybody who continues to be involved. Would that mean blackballing people who continue to work for government contractors as well? Possibly. I'd say that is left up to the individual implementor. We don't need to all literally agree on a list of individuals to blackball. A general trend across some subset of the community would do just fine. Some people may take it to the extreme, some may only dissociate from a narrowly defined group of people. This sort of social tension, or pressure, doesn't need to be engineered with exacting precision. A respected professor here, an influential ex-boss there, one of your college buddies that you might consider asking for a recommendation one day... all can contribute to this ostracism in their own way.

theboss 13y ago

I didn't try to get in shape actually, I succeeded. On topic though I don't even know what you're talking about. There are plenty of other mathematicians lined up to work for the government from thousands of schools around the country. There are plenty of PhDs in DC/MD/Va who have no problem taking the money at a R&D Firm or at the University they teach at. As long as the NSA shells out money then smart people will take it.

snth 13y ago
This isn't a dichotomy: "no one will work with the NSA" or "this is totally pointless". This approach can at least decrease the quality of people the NSA has working with them, specifically to people who can't get funding another way.

cschmidt 13y ago

I came across that quote earlier today (on http://slowtravels.tumblr.com/ http://slowtravels.tumblr.com/), attributed to Confucius. Who do you think it is by? “It does not matter how slow you go so long as you do not stop.” — Wisdom of Confucius

jlgreco 13y ago
A shame Confucius and Zeno never got a chance to sit down and hash things out. That would make for an interesting dialog.

pmorici 13y ago

Like it or not Silicon Valley is a beltway product too. It's genesis was in the huge amounts of money that the government showered on universities and companies in the area during the 60's and 70's. They've diversified some since but there are still plenty of companies that are supported by it Palantir for example http://www.palantir.com/solutions/ http://www.palantir.com/solutions/

jlgreco 13y ago
So? I honestly don't know what your point is here. This isn't some sort of "'free market' vs 'government', and who gets credit for various achievements" discussion.
- pmorici 13y ago
  The point is that the valley isn't an innocent victim here they have in the past and still do facilitate the surveillance state. To act as if refusing to deal with anyone involved would only mean uninviting some government employees from a few conferences and black balling a collection of beltway bandits is naive. The uncomfortable truth is that you would probably have to stop dealing with a lot more people and companies than you would be comfortable with.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    Consider the possibility of blackballing anybody who continues to be involved. Would that mean blackballing people who continue to work for government contractors as well? Possibly. I'd say that is left up to the individual implementor. We don't need to all literally agree on a list of individuals to blackball. A general trend across some subset of the community would do just fine. Some people may take it to the extreme, some may only dissociate from a narrowly defined group of people. This sort of social tension, or pressure, doesn't need to be engineered with exacting precision. A respected professor here, an influential ex-boss there, one of your college buddies that you might consider asking for a recommendation one day... all can contribute to this ostracism in their own way.