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Whoa old man quarterto, who said the word ever belonged to math people in the first place? I could argue that math people have a bad habit of squeezing English

by pak 13y ago

Whoa old man quarterto, who said the word ever belonged to math people in the first place? I could argue that math people have a bad habit of squeezing English words into strange contexts that corrupt the original meaning. Take "manifold" for instance, or "curl", or even something as harmless as "mode". They all meant perfectly fine things until the math people claimed them as their own. According to M-W "isomorphic" has pre-existing definitions from medicine and chemistry that could align better with what OP is trying to say. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/isomorphic http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/isomorphic Good day quarterto! I shall now leave to take a smooth ride in my compact car.

williamcotton 13y ago
He has a point. The system they are describing in the article isn't even isomorphic. If it WAS, it wouldn't depend on node. To clarify, if it was a true example of isomorphism it wouldn't be contingent on a single runtime environment or language. A better example of isomorphism in computing would be two modules of code that perform the same function and have the same abstract interface but that are written in DIFFERENT languages.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
  I don't see why different languages would matter. It's a matter of abstracting things from one system and having that abstracted set function in a different one. edit: To clarify, yes, the set would remain intact and functional in both systems.
  - williamcotton 13y ago
    I've been thinking about this for the last few hours... and regardless of the language used, I think I'm finding the point of confusion! isomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality but that are written in different languages and executed in different runtimes monomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality and that are written in the same language and have the same runtime heteromorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality and that are written in the same language but run in different runtimes homomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality but that are written in different langauges that run on the same runtime See, the thing is... languages are compiled to runtimes, right? But they are transpiled to other languages... There surface area of this discussion is very interesting and seems to have some interesting properties, and if you don't mind the math pun, it is truly a complex issue! As for how to actually name these different things, I don't think I really mind... maybe isomorphic and monomorphic swap in the above definition... I've been reading some latin and greek roots to try and give them good names, but I'd love some suggestions! For example, a function written in Scala that functions the same as a function written in JRuby and compiled to the JVM would be an example of a "homomorphism". And a function written in JavaScript that is compiled to run in both node and the web browser is an example of "heteromorphism". A function written in JavaScript that is compiled to run in the Ruby runtime is an example of "isomorphism". Monomorphic would just be sort of like an identity property. Also, I have no idea what I'm going on about, so please help me fix the language! Maybe isomorphic IS the correct term for what is going on in the article, who knows? :)
- Ygg2 13y ago
  Iso morphism means - equal form. According to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isomorphism http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isomorphism one meaning is similar form. As in - server and client code have similar form.
cscurmudgeon 13y ago
A lot of mathematics intersects with programming. There is a clear notion of isomorphism in programming and computer science. The pedestrian web dev is not aware of it. Imagine a graph theory researcher calling a program which handles graphs a web app. Isn't that confusing?
drdaeman 13y ago
In my understanding, when we're talking about formal languages (which JS is), "isomorphic" has a fairly well-defined and strict meaning. And there's a (unsolved) conjecture that every NP-complete language are p-isomorphic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berman%E2%80%93Hartmanis_conjecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berman%E2%80%93Hartmanis_conjec...
pmelendez 13y ago
>"According to M-W "isomorphic" has pre-existing definitions from medicine and chemistry" That link doesn't say that those definitions were "pre-existing". They say the first use was on 1862 but failed in specifying in which context was used first.

by pak 13y ago

williamcotton 13y ago

He has a point. The system they are describing in the article isn't even isomorphic. If it WAS, it wouldn't depend on node. To clarify, if it was a true example of isomorphism it wouldn't be contingent on a single runtime environment or language. A better example of isomorphism in computing would be two modules of code that perform the same function and have the same abstract interface but that are written in DIFFERENT languages.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
I don't see why different languages would matter. It's a matter of abstracting things from one system and having that abstracted set function in a different one. edit: To clarify, yes, the set would remain intact and functional in both systems.
- williamcotton 13y ago
  I've been thinking about this for the last few hours... and regardless of the language used, I think I'm finding the point of confusion! isomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality but that are written in different languages and executed in different runtimes monomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality and that are written in the same language and have the same runtime heteromorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality and that are written in the same language but run in different runtimes homomorphic: modules that have the same abstract interface and functionality but that are written in different langauges that run on the same runtime See, the thing is... languages are compiled to runtimes, right? But they are transpiled to other languages... There surface area of this discussion is very interesting and seems to have some interesting properties, and if you don't mind the math pun, it is truly a complex issue! As for how to actually name these different things, I don't think I really mind... maybe isomorphic and monomorphic swap in the above definition... I've been reading some latin and greek roots to try and give them good names, but I'd love some suggestions! For example, a function written in Scala that functions the same as a function written in JRuby and compiled to the JVM would be an example of a "homomorphism". And a function written in JavaScript that is compiled to run in both node and the web browser is an example of "heteromorphism". A function written in JavaScript that is compiled to run in the Ruby runtime is an example of "isomorphism". Monomorphic would just be sort of like an identity property. Also, I have no idea what I'm going on about, so please help me fix the language! Maybe isomorphic IS the correct term for what is going on in the article, who knows? :)
Ygg2 13y ago
Iso morphism means - equal form. According to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isomorphism http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isomorphism one meaning is similar form. As in - server and client code have similar form.

cscurmudgeon 13y ago

A lot of mathematics intersects with programming. There is a clear notion of isomorphism in programming and computer science. The pedestrian web dev is not aware of it. Imagine a graph theory researcher calling a program which handles graphs a web app. Isn't that confusing?

drdaeman 13y ago

In my understanding, when we're talking about formal languages (which JS is), "isomorphic" has a fairly well-defined and strict meaning. And there's a (unsolved) conjecture that every NP-complete language are p-isomorphic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berman%E2%80%93Hartmanis_conjecture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berman%E2%80%93Hartmanis_conjec...

pmelendez 13y ago

>"According to M-W "isomorphic" has pre-existing definitions from medicine and chemistry" That link doesn't say that those definitions were "pre-existing". They say the first use was on 1862 but failed in specifying in which context was used first.