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Agreed. Despite the unfortunate title, this is an informative, well written and entertaining article that I might refer to in the future. It would be better if

by rch 13y ago

Agreed. Despite the unfortunate title, this is an informative, well written and entertaining article that I might refer to in the future. It would be better if there was a followup on when it would in fact be appropriate to introduce a document store to a project.

danso 13y ago
I agree that the OP is lengthy, and putting together this well-illustrated post is no easy feat. However, I don't think the OP should be the one to write about when you should use a document store. Maybe I'm too annoyed by the poorly chosen title. Or that I read that entire post and was thinking where's the punchline? On one hand, I credit the author for thinking things through. On the other, the fact that she unequivocally attributes this issue to MongoDB shows that she currently lacks the domain knowledge to consider appropriate use cases. It's not a MongoDB problem, it's a problem inherent to this data structure, and someone more well-versed in this topic would not conflate the issue...just as a decent IT person would not blame "Windoze" for the fact that she can't get good Wifi reception in the office. OK, to be even more petty...I think what really aggravates me is how the OP says she's not a database expert -- which is a good disclosure, but self-evident -- but attempts to assert authority by saying "I build web applications...I build a lot of web applications"...Uh, OK, so what you're saying is that it's possible to be an experienced web developer and yet be a novice at data design? If that was the angle of the OP, I'd give it five stars. Such sentiment cannot be overstated.
- rch 13y ago
  Well you're right of course that web developers (and business analysts, and politicians, etc.) can absolutely get by for a staggeringly long time with novice-level abilities. That problem is only getting worse as the tools get better. Luckily I don't have to judge the OP on that basis since that's what markets are for. And maybe someone else, who has tackled enough difficult problems over time to evolve a nuanced and technically informed opinion of various data modeling and management options, should write the response I mentioned. I'd argue there are plenty examples of that material available already. The OP, on the other hand, would be writing from the perspective of a professional user who might choose a tool off the shelf at the recommendation of a colleague, and whack it against the problem du jour to see if it works or not. This is a common enough approach that there is at least a chance that a followup would have some value. I can't really expect everyone who makes a living writing web applications to understand CS fundamentals, any more than I would expect it from chemical engineers or physicians. It is nice to be able to point representative members of that audience to an article that resonates with them, and not have to try to translate my opinions into similar language (with or without cat gifs). Edit: I actually think Journeyman would be a more appropriate term than novice.
- jrochkind1 13y ago
  Aren't there things other than 'experts' and 'novices'? It is possible to be an experienced web developer without being an expert at databases, for some reasonable definition of 'expert', sure. I think so anyway. Do you find that aggravating? Whether it's possible to be an experienced web developer while being a novice at either 'databases' or 'data design' (are those the same thing? you said the second, OP said the first) is open to debate I suppose, but is not implied by the OP.

by rch 13y ago

danso 13y ago

I agree that the OP is lengthy, and putting together this well-illustrated post is no easy feat. However, I don't think the OP should be the one to write about when you should use a document store. Maybe I'm too annoyed by the poorly chosen title. Or that I read that entire post and was thinking where's the punchline? On one hand, I credit the author for thinking things through. On the other, the fact that she unequivocally attributes this issue to MongoDB shows that she currently lacks the domain knowledge to consider appropriate use cases. It's not a MongoDB problem, it's a problem inherent to this data structure, and someone more well-versed in this topic would not conflate the issue...just as a decent IT person would not blame "Windoze" for the fact that she can't get good Wifi reception in the office. OK, to be even more petty...I think what really aggravates me is how the OP says she's not a database expert -- which is a good disclosure, but self-evident -- but attempts to assert authority by saying "I build web applications...I build a lot of web applications"...Uh, OK, so what you're saying is that it's possible to be an experienced web developer and yet be a novice at data design? If that was the angle of the OP, I'd give it five stars. Such sentiment cannot be overstated.

rch 13y ago
Well you're right of course that web developers (and business analysts, and politicians, etc.) can absolutely get by for a staggeringly long time with novice-level abilities. That problem is only getting worse as the tools get better. Luckily I don't have to judge the OP on that basis since that's what markets are for. And maybe someone else, who has tackled enough difficult problems over time to evolve a nuanced and technically informed opinion of various data modeling and management options, should write the response I mentioned. I'd argue there are plenty examples of that material available already. The OP, on the other hand, would be writing from the perspective of a professional user who might choose a tool off the shelf at the recommendation of a colleague, and whack it against the problem du jour to see if it works or not. This is a common enough approach that there is at least a chance that a followup would have some value. I can't really expect everyone who makes a living writing web applications to understand CS fundamentals, any more than I would expect it from chemical engineers or physicians. It is nice to be able to point representative members of that audience to an article that resonates with them, and not have to try to translate my opinions into similar language (with or without cat gifs). Edit: I actually think Journeyman would be a more appropriate term than novice.
jrochkind1 13y ago
Aren't there things other than 'experts' and 'novices'? It is possible to be an experienced web developer without being an expert at databases, for some reasonable definition of 'expert', sure. I think so anyway. Do you find that aggravating? Whether it's possible to be an experienced web developer while being a novice at either 'databases' or 'data design' (are those the same thing? you said the second, OP said the first) is open to debate I suppose, but is not implied by the OP.