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This is ridiculous linkbait bullshit. Anyone who dismisses document stores entirely has lost all my respect. It wasn't the right solution for your problem, but

This is ridiculous linkbait bullshit. Anyone who dismisses document stores entirely has lost all my respect. It wasn't the right solution for your problem, but it might be the right solution for many others.

neoveller 13y ago
Agreed. Also, this looks way more like a case where the author mis-structured his data for his intended use case, and is blaming the tool instead of the skill level used to implement it. Nesting deeper than one level in a document is rarely going to result in sufficient query capability with respect to the nested items. Even MySQL can't nest rows inside other rows, which is what he seems to have wanted. Maybe he chose MongoDB because he wasn't ready to think around the architecting issues that an SQL-based database would require, which happen to be, although not immediately obvious, similar to those in Mongo.
- mossity 13y ago
  Despite being a programmer, I believe Sarah is a woman.
  - pearjuice 13y ago
    The more reason this article should be taken with a grain of salt.
    - DeadSuperHero 13y ago
      Seriously, dude? It's attitudes like that which makes women hesitant to become coders and computer engineers. It doesn't matter what's between a person's legs; just that a person can code, enjoys doing it, and knows what they're talking about.
      - pearjuice 13y ago
        For years men were dominant in computer science and engineering and I really see no reason why this should change. Only in recent time with this whole third wave of post-feminism certain groups of females think it is their task to overthrow men supremacy in said fields. They are way too emotional for this profession and this results in drama and absolute shit code in production. I am not saying the author of the article submitted has fallen victim to described wrong doings, I am only saying that at all cost unknown teritorry should be approached with extreme care. You don't know what is subliminally hidden until you realize. Too late.
        jacques_chester 13y ago
        > third wave of post-feminism Hint: /r/TheRedPill is going to make your life worse, not better.
        IdahoEv 13y ago
        Oh my god, I did not need to know that existed. I need brain bleach now.
        codygman 13y ago
        Yeah, stay away from that stuff... can mess you up.
        argvzero 13y ago
        how does it feel to be a piece of shit?
        zalambar 13y ago
        This attitude is both hateful and harmful to our profession. It is not ok and I wish more of our peers would step up to tell you that this is not acceptable. You are also making wildly inaccurate statements to justify your abuse and I hate to think that other readers might accept them uncritically. We have been actively pushing women out of computer science for the past 30 years (and doing a fine job or excluding and ignoring the contributions of other minority groups in the process). Suggesting that men "were" dominant and misrepresenting the direction of this change in willful ignorance of history at best. I know relying to trolls is not particularly effective and other users have called this out for being hateful but I don't want to see us accept either the premises or the tone presented here.
    - theorique 13y ago
      While your namesake is sweet and delicious, your opinions are questionable.
    - VeejayRampay 13y ago
      I don't understand why your comment is being buried. It's absolutely idiotic and backwards in substance, sure, but sweeping it under the rug doesn't help anyone.
    - zallen 13y ago
      Fuck you. ...Was that emotional enough? Or not emotional enough? It's so hard to tell.
y0ghur7_xxx 13y ago
> but it might be the right solution for many others. The author made the example of the movie database and explained why it was a good idea when they started, and why it didn't work out. Can you point out an example of data you would store in a document database, which is not purely for caching purposes?
- corresation 13y ago
  >Can you point out an example of data you would store in a document database, which is not purely for caching purposes? I've been a pretty vocal critic of document databases in the past[1] (indeed, I get a little bit of a chuckle recalling the prevailing HN wisdom a couple of years ago and comparing it to now), however I recently had a project where added data was immutable and additive and non-relational: MongoDB was the perfect choice, and provided a zero friction, easy to deploy and scale solution. [1] - http://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2010/03/24/the-impact-of-ssds-on-database-performance-and-the-performance-paradox-of-data-explodification/ http://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2010/03/24/the-impact-of-ss... -- this went seriously against the prevailing sentiment at the time, and there was this strong "only relics use SQL" sentiment, including here on HN.
  - jonknee 13y ago
    > I recently had a project where added data was immutable and additive and non-relational: MongoDB was the perfect choice Technically that sounds a lot like the TV database example in the OP. MongoDB was the perfect choice until a feature was required that required a relation.
- lotyrin 13y ago
  Collecting structured log data like monitors or exception traces or user analytics. Lots of documents, no fixed schema, they're all self-contained with no relations. Map reduce makes query parallelism crazy magic. A content management system. Some stuff may want data from across relations (who owns this thing, and what is their email), but that's pretty infrequent and having nice flexible-schema documents that contain all relevant information that's being CRUD'ed simplifies things hugely - particularly in MVCC systems like Couch that put stuff like multi-master/offline-online sync and conflict resolution in the set of core expectations. Edit: That said, Postgres is also MVCC, and hstore makes schema an option the same way that relations and transactions were already, so I think it could do pretty well. I haven't gotten the chance to play with it in recent history, unfortunately.

neoveller 13y ago

Agreed. Also, this looks way more like a case where the author mis-structured his data for his intended use case, and is blaming the tool instead of the skill level used to implement it. Nesting deeper than one level in a document is rarely going to result in sufficient query capability with respect to the nested items. Even MySQL can't nest rows inside other rows, which is what he seems to have wanted. Maybe he chose MongoDB because he wasn't ready to think around the architecting issues that an SQL-based database would require, which happen to be, although not immediately obvious, similar to those in Mongo.

mossity 13y ago
Despite being a programmer, I believe Sarah is a woman.
- pearjuice 13y ago
  The more reason this article should be taken with a grain of salt.
  - DeadSuperHero 13y ago
    Seriously, dude? It's attitudes like that which makes women hesitant to become coders and computer engineers. It doesn't matter what's between a person's legs; just that a person can code, enjoys doing it, and knows what they're talking about.
    - pearjuice 13y ago
      For years men were dominant in computer science and engineering and I really see no reason why this should change. Only in recent time with this whole third wave of post-feminism certain groups of females think it is their task to overthrow men supremacy in said fields. They are way too emotional for this profession and this results in drama and absolute shit code in production. I am not saying the author of the article submitted has fallen victim to described wrong doings, I am only saying that at all cost unknown teritorry should be approached with extreme care. You don't know what is subliminally hidden until you realize. Too late.
      - jacques_chester 13y ago
        > third wave of post-feminism Hint: /r/TheRedPill is going to make your life worse, not better.
        IdahoEv 13y ago
        Oh my god, I did not need to know that existed. I need brain bleach now.
        codygman 13y ago
        Yeah, stay away from that stuff... can mess you up.
      - argvzero 13y ago
        how does it feel to be a piece of shit?
      - zalambar 13y ago
        This attitude is both hateful and harmful to our profession. It is not ok and I wish more of our peers would step up to tell you that this is not acceptable. You are also making wildly inaccurate statements to justify your abuse and I hate to think that other readers might accept them uncritically. We have been actively pushing women out of computer science for the past 30 years (and doing a fine job or excluding and ignoring the contributions of other minority groups in the process). Suggesting that men "were" dominant and misrepresenting the direction of this change in willful ignorance of history at best. I know relying to trolls is not particularly effective and other users have called this out for being hateful but I don't want to see us accept either the premises or the tone presented here.
  - theorique 13y ago
    While your namesake is sweet and delicious, your opinions are questionable.
  - VeejayRampay 13y ago
    I don't understand why your comment is being buried. It's absolutely idiotic and backwards in substance, sure, but sweeping it under the rug doesn't help anyone.
  - zallen 13y ago
    Fuck you. ...Was that emotional enough? Or not emotional enough? It's so hard to tell.

y0ghur7_xxx 13y ago

> but it might be the right solution for many others. The author made the example of the movie database and explained why it was a good idea when they started, and why it didn't work out. Can you point out an example of data you would store in a document database, which is not purely for caching purposes?

corresation 13y ago
>Can you point out an example of data you would store in a document database, which is not purely for caching purposes? I've been a pretty vocal critic of document databases in the past[1] (indeed, I get a little bit of a chuckle recalling the prevailing HN wisdom a couple of years ago and comparing it to now), however I recently had a project where added data was immutable and additive and non-relational: MongoDB was the perfect choice, and provided a zero friction, easy to deploy and scale solution. [1] - http://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2010/03/24/the-impact-of-ssds-on-database-performance-and-the-performance-paradox-of-data-explodification/ http://dennisforbes.ca/index.php/2010/03/24/the-impact-of-ss... -- this went seriously against the prevailing sentiment at the time, and there was this strong "only relics use SQL" sentiment, including here on HN.
- jonknee 13y ago
  > I recently had a project where added data was immutable and additive and non-relational: MongoDB was the perfect choice Technically that sounds a lot like the TV database example in the OP. MongoDB was the perfect choice until a feature was required that required a relation.
lotyrin 13y ago
Collecting structured log data like monitors or exception traces or user analytics. Lots of documents, no fixed schema, they're all self-contained with no relations. Map reduce makes query parallelism crazy magic. A content management system. Some stuff may want data from across relations (who owns this thing, and what is their email), but that's pretty infrequent and having nice flexible-schema documents that contain all relevant information that's being CRUD'ed simplifies things hugely - particularly in MVCC systems like Couch that put stuff like multi-master/offline-online sync and conflict resolution in the set of core expectations. Edit: That said, Postgres is also MVCC, and hstore makes schema an option the same way that relations and transactions were already, so I think it could do pretty well. I haven't gotten the chance to play with it in recent history, unfortunately.