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International Space Station Infected With USB Stick Malware
- dinosaurs 13y ago"As these systems are based on Linux, they are open to infection." Edit: This part seems to have been removed.
- Zikes 13y agoWill these rocket scientists ever learn?!
- timje1 13y agoWell it's not exactly brain surgery, is it?
- lesterbuck 13y agoRocket Surgery Made Easy http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Surgery-Made-Easy-Do-It-Yourself/dp/0321657292 http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Surgery-Made-Easy-Do-It-Yoursel...
- AdamTReineke 13y agoYup, that's where I stopped reading.
- TallGuyShort 13y agoI can see why people would assume that open source is a big security risk, but how deep does your head have to be buried in sand for you to think that Windows (which, AFAIK, is the only other OS often used in large government systems like this) has not been open to infection?
- freehunter 13y agoWho says that Windows is not open to infection? All that was stated is that Linux is open to infection. There's no implication that using another popular OS would have been a better choice.
- AmVess 13y agoWell if they used Windows, at least we'd occasionally get free ISS parts showing up in our backyards. FTR: I'm a Windows user.
- TallGuyShort 13y agoAgreed, but it was still quite disingenuous of them to say that Linux was the specific reason they were open to infection. The fact that the space station has computers and ways to connect to those computers means there's a chance of infection.
- freehunter 13y agoViruses are harder to implement on custom software, though. Perhaps the ISS should have used a custom OS to protect against malware? Popular off-the-shelf software is going to be targeted before an in-house and not-publicly-documented piece of software.
- hrkristian 13y agoBuilding an OS from the ground up would take a lot of money and manpower, and NASA aren't exactly rolling in cash nowadays. And while yes, in-house software would be safe against most existing malware, and general malware, ISS would not be safe from direct attacks. Those are the real threat anyway...
- freehunter 13y agoVxWorks is pretty popular with space agencies (NASA uses it, as well as SpaceX. Curiosity and Dragon both run VxWorks RTOS). It has a 64-bit mode for Intel processors, runs on HRFS, DOSFS, and NFS, has IPv6 built in, and is POSIX compliant. While direct attacks are a real threat, I don't see anywhere saying this was a direct attack. Not using an off-the-shelf OS could have mitigated the attack if it wasn't a direct attack.
- tmerr 13y agoI don't see what the fuss is all about. They are open to infection. They're built on linux, rather than an entirely custom system. So they're vulnerable to existing malware floating around.
- jlgreco 13y agoCustom systems would also be "open to infection". It just probably wouldn't be very likely. It is very difficult to not read a strong implication into that line. If nothing else, then the line is useless and states nothing at all.
- BuildTheRobots 13y agounless FireFox Search is failing me, it looks like that quote has been removed.
- eli 13y agoI don't think he meant to imply that Linux is more open to infection than other popular operating systems.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- skarip 13y agoI think the implication is that had they been built on an internally built OS(es) they would have not been open to infections already existent, not that Linux is more prone to infections than alternative OSes.
- callesgg 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet Seams to me that Stuxnet infects Windows and SCADA (wich i guees might be linux powered, not that it matters ).
- dz0ny 13y agoscada controller (runs on windows as app) not the scada device (controlled by windows app)
- acqq 13y agoWhat do you talk about? Stuxnet eventually deploys the native infected code for non-Windows PLC device, Windows is just a carrier not the final target: http://antivirus.about.com/od/virusdescriptions/p/Stuxnet-Worm.htm http://antivirus.about.com/od/virusdescriptions/p/Stuxnet-Wo... "the Stuxnet worm incorporates several sophisticated means of propagation with the goal of eventually reaching and infecting STEP 7 project files used to program the PLC devices. For initial propagation purposes, the worm targets computers running the Windows operating systems. However, the PLC itself is not a Windows-based system but rather a proprietary machine-language device."
- mullingitover 13y agos/'these systems are based on Linux'/'attackers have physical access'/g
- kylemaxwell 13y ago>Kaspersky revealed that Russian astronauts carried a removable device into space which infected systems on the space station. He did not elaborate on the impact of the infection on operations of the International Space Station (ISS). >Kaspersky said he had been told that from time to time there were "virus epidemics" on the station. Given the total lack of supporting evidence here, I'm going to stick a big ol' [citation needed] sticker on this.
- DanBC 13y agoIt's not controversial. A tiny bit of web searching would have turned up reliable sources. here's one from a while ago. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/malware-detected-at-the-international-space-station/1806 http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/malware-detected-at-the-i... It's even been on HN before. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5770145 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5770145 EDIT: Sorry! This is really grumpy.
- kylemaxwell 13y agoThanks for the references (and no worries on the "grumpiness" :) ) but I still don't think this qualifies as an "epidemic", to use Kaspersky's wording.
- markeganfuller 13y agoHasn't this news already been released? I'm sure I recall seeing it somewhere before? Or has it happened yet again?
- ChuckMcM 13y agoYes, I was thinking perhaps this was trying to get the Kaspersky name out there in front of people when they are renewing their anti-virus packages. Since a lot of students end up with computers at Chrismtas time, it seems there is a renewal hump at the same time. It seems to correlate with people who make such systems trying to get into the press about how aware/good/active they are. It looks like a great example of a self organizing system :-)
- Lerc 13y agoPerhaps, but this is the first time I've seen the news presented on a website with an autoplaying video of unrelated material under a full page overlay popup that nags me to like them on facebook.
- cs702 13y agoAs almost everyone reading this knows, software is going to "eat the world" -- to quote Marc Andreessen.[1] The corollary to that prediction: wherever one finds software, one will also find bugs and malware. So, bugs and malware everywhere -- in our phones, TVs, ovens, vehicles, factories... and space stations. -- [1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424053111903480904576512250915629460 http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405311190348090...
- astrodust 13y agoThis is not unlike how where there's biological life, there's parasites and viruses.
- Florin_Andrei 13y agoMoreover, everything has evolved to the point where we can't live without some "parasites" - see gut bacteria. Perhaps some sort of a similar homeostasis will also be reached by software.
- kbenson 13y agoSure, I can see a few ways of this happening: 1) A virus provides some additional benefit. For example, if a virus' first stage acts as a sort of installer and pulls in some additional libraries for use, at some point of public infection rate there's a pretty good chance those libraries are available to anyone targeting programming for those systems. This becomes more feasible if AV cleaned the infectious and malicious portion while leaving libraries. Imagine, every system has libpcap one it... 2) Viruses start opening previously locked down portions of the OS to achieve their goals, and developers start taking advantage of these opening to extract more value for what they provide (in fact, being somewhat malicious themselves). This is already the case to some small degree with browser exploits. Keygen utilities that install malware seem to fit this somewhat. This all presupposes a much more computer integrated and yet less computer aware society, which is where I think we are heading. More and more items have integrated computers and operating systems, yet we are much less aware of when this is the case (of course certain groups, such HN regulars, are more likely to be a aware of these items). Edit: Here's a sample scenario for you: You turn on your new computer and attempt to use it to watch videos on your favorite site, but it doesn't work. You try again tomorrow and it does. What happened is that between then and now, a virus has infected your system and installed a hacked divx codec and made some changes in your browser to redirect you to some specific sites often. The author gets information about your system far beyond what is normally allowed, and you get access to videos as you normally did (possibly illegally).
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jccooper 13y agoISS had a documented infection from W32.Gammima.AG worm in 2008 from the Russian segment, back when they were running Windows. http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/155392-international-space-station-switches-from-windows-to-linux-for-improved-reliability http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/155392-international-spac... Kaspersky never specifically claims a recent or Stuxnet infection of the ISS, just of a power plant, so he's probably referring to the above as an example of air gap not being enough to prevent attacks. The commercial laptops (originally running Win98, then NT, then XP, now moving to Debian 6) are used for normal computing and interfacing with segment control. The segment computers (60+) which actually run the station are heterogeneous and bespoke aerospace-heritage hardware and software. The Russian side and American side especially are very different and almost entirely independent. Pretty darn sure there's no Siemens systems running up there, so Stuxnet wouldn't be a problem. The embedded systems are probably not all that hardened, but they are not widely-distributed (to say the least) and are hard to get to, so it would be awful hard to target them. Possible, but mostly through attacking the developers on the ground, I should think.
- leephillips 13y agoNow that's an air gap.
- mhurron 13y agoHow large of a speaker was needed to jump it?
- qwerty_asdf 13y agoIn space, no one can hear you scream.
- tcdent 13y agoIs it technically 'air' when it's that far out?
- darklajid 13y agoWarning: This link auto-plays a video with sound enabled for me (about Snowden, in the upper right corner, totally unrelated to the fine article about the ISS).
- ajre 13y agoAnd the page also pops up a giant like button every few minutes.
- wrongc0ntinent 13y agohttps://web.archive.org/web/20131111162541/http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/521246/20131111/international-space-station-infected-malware-russian-astronaut.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20131111162541/http://www.ibtime... This doesn't do either.
- evincarofautumn 13y agoThat interstitial ad took down my Chrome tab. :(
- ChikkaChiChi 13y ago"As these systems are based on human creations, they are open to infection." FTFY.
- orenmazor 13y agothis is why on Galactica all of their computer systems were completely disconnected from each other.
- mkramlich 13y agointeresting because a common suggestion for increasing the security of a sensitive system is to maintain an "air gap". they have an "off-the-planet gap" and they still got compromised.
- gizmo686 13y agoThey also had a constant radio connection with the station, which is the opposite of an "air gap".
- gcb0 13y ago<quote>Expensive Kaspersky told the Press Club that creating malware like Stuxnet, Gauss, Flame and Red October is a highly complex process which would cost up to $10 million to develop.</quote> really, 10mi to disable one strategic facility (or maybe N facilities) is expensive? that is probably the cost of a dozen smart bombs. And you can use the digital counterpart much more stealthily. Sounds like a bargain.
- JustStoppingBy 13y agoIs this "news" being passed-off as a current event? This happened at least 2 years ago.
- Andrenid 13y agoLucky it wasn't the cryptolocker virus. Can't exactly connect to the net from up there to pay the people.