4 ms·

Ask HN: Learning to write effectively - for programmers

6 points by teej 17y ago

I'm a programmer with a hacker mentality. I'm mostly self-taught through experience and rolling out small projects to learn new technologies. But when it comes to writing, I don't what steps to take to improve. The resources available on the topic don't speak to my learning style or answer all my questions. So Hacker News, how do I start learning to write effectively? - What is the feedback loop? How do I know if my writing is good or bad? - If my end goal is to be a business/technology blogger, what changes? - If my end goal is to be a better HN commenter, what changes?

TallGuyShort 17y ago
>> - What is the feedback loop? How do I know if my writing is good or bad? In my first year of college I was amazed at how helpful it was to just give my writing to a couple of people and get their comments on it. I had never taken the idea very seriously - but it changed the way I wrote. Listen to their comments, even if you don't agree at first. Remember - your writing is usually for an audience, so pay more attention to their opinion than your own. >> - If my end goal is to be a business/technology blogger, what changes? Aside from just practicing and reading that kind of material, I would recommend you study rhetoric - the art of making a good argument by taking into account your strengths as an author, the specifics and emotions of your audience, and the logic of your argument (ethos, pathos, and logos) >> - If my end goal is to be a better HN commenter, what changes? Any person who has real experience, sincere opinions and good manners will probably make a great HN commenter.
ErrantX 17y ago
Write lots, it's the only real solution. I dabble in article writing (more for print media than the web) and you get slowly better over time. At one point I had a weekly column and my style improved dramatically due to the regularity of writing. Getting feedback can be tough: if your blogging then places like HN, Reddit etc. can be good critics - but usually more of your ideas than your style. Dont bother with writers forums and the likes either - they tend to be very proud of pedaticism over language etc. As suggested send stuff to friends and see what they have to say; or even better people you don't know too well (but suspect will give you straight advise). One general tip I picked up (ironically from seeing the playback of pg writing an essay a while back) is refactor, rewrite and edit yourself (dammit, really stuck for a good word here! err....) extensively (ugh). One tactic I find useful is to pop small notes into the text when I feel like I hate the sentence I just wrote (for example) and come back to it later. Dont be scared to put passion and force into your writing - at the end of the day if your content is solid it will stand up for your readers. But if you don't sound passionate or involved in what you have to say then people will notice your disconnection from the subject. If you get behind a good argument it lends it a lot more weight. In terms of HN commentary: I would say that is very different. My writing style on here is very plain and often rushed and boorish (possibly, no definitely, self centred). Just be polite that's the main thing :D you don't really have room to form a complete and subtle argument in a comment! EDIT: one final comment on opinions. If you decide to form some (a few bloggers / writers DO successfully write with no obvious opinions) then take time now to decide how strongly you present them. I am generally renowned for being very strong and forceful with my opinions (though I hope able to be swayed by a good counter argument - my friends will scoff at that:D). If your likely to be the same the piece of advice I have is always re-read what you wrote several times in the few hrs/days after you write it. Knee jerk reactions or over zealous commenting can be easy when you get wrapped in an opinion too tightly and I usually find myself rewriting a comment several times to clarify a message that got muddied in the explosion :D
grellas 17y ago
Strunk & White, Fowler, et al. emphasize rules and precepts. These are OK but too one-dimensional. Stephen King, after years at his trade, emphasized basics - master grammar. I would add (with TallGuyShort), master rhetoric. In addition, I threw myself into the study of classical languages (Latin and Greek) in order to master complex sentence constructions, fine points of verbs, etc. Once you learn all that, it is important that you basically throw it away - that is, that you never come across as pedantic. The great example of a light and brilliant style by someone thoroughly grounded in the classics is P.G. Wodehouse. His topics are all fluff. His style is priceless. Fun, light in tone, yet full of subtlety (all drawn from his classical training with words and with literary allusions). Read about how Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry, who played Bertie and Jeeves in a BBC series, positively gush over his style (they don't exaggerate). As an autodidact, it would seem you are a natural to throw yourself into this area as well. If interested, here is a link to something I did on what lawyers need to do to write well (http://www.grellas.com/articles.html http://www.grellas.com/articles.html), for what it is worth. Can't speak to blogging itself. I'm sure others can.
olliesaunders 17y ago
When I wanted to improve my writing I started with grammar after I realised how effectively my school education had failed to teach me it. I highly recommend this forum http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=111 http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=111 if you're interested in that.
makecheck 17y ago
Use few words, and eighth-grade English. (Easier for anyone to understand, but also better for foreign colleagues.) E-mail is a great place to start being clear and concise. This encourages people to read everything you say, without skimming. Plus, they can always mail you back if you left out anything important.

6 points by teej 17y ago

TallGuyShort 17y ago

>> - What is the feedback loop? How do I know if my writing is good or bad? In my first year of college I was amazed at how helpful it was to just give my writing to a couple of people and get their comments on it. I had never taken the idea very seriously - but it changed the way I wrote. Listen to their comments, even if you don't agree at first. Remember - your writing is usually for an audience, so pay more attention to their opinion than your own. >> - If my end goal is to be a business/technology blogger, what changes? Aside from just practicing and reading that kind of material, I would recommend you study rhetoric - the art of making a good argument by taking into account your strengths as an author, the specifics and emotions of your audience, and the logic of your argument (ethos, pathos, and logos) >> - If my end goal is to be a better HN commenter, what changes? Any person who has real experience, sincere opinions and good manners will probably make a great HN commenter.

ErrantX 17y ago

Write lots, it's the only real solution. I dabble in article writing (more for print media than the web) and you get slowly better over time. At one point I had a weekly column and my style improved dramatically due to the regularity of writing. Getting feedback can be tough: if your blogging then places like HN, Reddit etc. can be good critics - but usually more of your ideas than your style. Dont bother with writers forums and the likes either - they tend to be very proud of pedaticism over language etc. As suggested send stuff to friends and see what they have to say; or even better people you don't know too well (but suspect will give you straight advise). One general tip I picked up (ironically from seeing the playback of pg writing an essay a while back) is refactor, rewrite and edit yourself (dammit, really stuck for a good word here! err....) extensively (ugh). One tactic I find useful is to pop small notes into the text when I feel like I hate the sentence I just wrote (for example) and come back to it later. Dont be scared to put passion and force into your writing - at the end of the day if your content is solid it will stand up for your readers. But if you don't sound passionate or involved in what you have to say then people will notice your disconnection from the subject. If you get behind a good argument it lends it a lot more weight. In terms of HN commentary: I would say that is very different. My writing style on here is very plain and often rushed and boorish (possibly, no definitely, self centred). Just be polite that's the main thing :D you don't really have room to form a complete and subtle argument in a comment! EDIT: one final comment on opinions. If you decide to form some (a few bloggers / writers DO successfully write with no obvious opinions) then take time now to decide how strongly you present them. I am generally renowned for being very strong and forceful with my opinions (though I hope able to be swayed by a good counter argument - my friends will scoff at that:D). If your likely to be the same the piece of advice I have is always re-read what you wrote several times in the few hrs/days after you write it. Knee jerk reactions or over zealous commenting can be easy when you get wrapped in an opinion too tightly and I usually find myself rewriting a comment several times to clarify a message that got muddied in the explosion :D

grellas 17y ago

Strunk & White, Fowler, et al. emphasize rules and precepts. These are OK but too one-dimensional. Stephen King, after years at his trade, emphasized basics - master grammar. I would add (with TallGuyShort), master rhetoric. In addition, I threw myself into the study of classical languages (Latin and Greek) in order to master complex sentence constructions, fine points of verbs, etc. Once you learn all that, it is important that you basically throw it away - that is, that you never come across as pedantic. The great example of a light and brilliant style by someone thoroughly grounded in the classics is P.G. Wodehouse. His topics are all fluff. His style is priceless. Fun, light in tone, yet full of subtlety (all drawn from his classical training with words and with literary allusions). Read about how Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry, who played Bertie and Jeeves in a BBC series, positively gush over his style (they don't exaggerate). As an autodidact, it would seem you are a natural to throw yourself into this area as well. If interested, here is a link to something I did on what lawyers need to do to write well (http://www.grellas.com/articles.html http://www.grellas.com/articles.html), for what it is worth. Can't speak to blogging itself. I'm sure others can.

olliesaunders 17y ago

When I wanted to improve my writing I started with grammar after I realised how effectively my school education had failed to teach me it. I highly recommend this forum http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=111 http://absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=111 if you're interested in that.

makecheck 17y ago

Use few words, and eighth-grade English. (Easier for anyone to understand, but also better for foreign colleagues.) E-mail is a great place to start being clear and concise. This encourages people to read everything you say, without skimming. Plus, they can always mail you back if you left out anything important.