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Please don't find this reply condescending :D But Americans also call their train operators "engineers"...

TheCoelacanth 13y ago
I don't find that condescending. What I do find condescending is attempting to apply the laws of certain countries to the world as a whole. There are, in fact, many jurisdictions where being an engineer does not require any form of accreditation. The fact that some jurisdictions do require accreditation does not give engineers in other jurisdictions any less claim to the title.
- kabouseng 13y ago
  Where did I do that? You were the one highlighting America as having the biggest software industry...
  - TheCoelacanth 13y ago
    The part where you claimed that only people who are officially accredited are engineers. People who live and work somewhere without such accreditation are completely justified in calling themselves engineers without being accredited.
    - kabouseng 13y ago
      My apologies then, I was not trying to force my viewpoint, I only shared it. Just as I don't believe anyone who's read Gray's anatomy (the book) can or should call themselves a doctor, just the same I don't believe anyone writing code should call themselves an engineer...
      - TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        So, according to your viewpoint, there were no doctor's in the US until the late 1800's?
        kabouseng 13y ago
        You'll have to provide a bit more context for me. But again comparing modern day professions to the 19th century equivalent does not bode well for your argument. If you'd prefer the medical industry return to its standards and practices of the 19th century, your welcome to visit such a doctor. I prefer my modern day certified medical professional.
        TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        The late 1800's is when doctors were first licensed in the US. Before that doctors practiced medicine but were not licensed, yet they were still doctors. Official licensing undoubtedly raises the quality of doctor's practicing medicine, but it is not an inherent quality of being a doctor. In most places, someone is not allowed to practice medicine without a license, but in places without medical licensing, someone who practices medicine without a license is still a doctor. Engineering is the same. Licensing most likely raises the quality of engineers, but that does not mean an unlicensed person who does the job of an engineer is not an engineer.
        kabouseng 13y ago
        Pray do tell where in the world is an unlicensed medical practitioner called a docter? My point being, in this day and age, to call yourself a docter, you must be licensed. Bringing up history does nothing to change that fact. I would state that should also apply for engineers, and already does in most countries. Merely the fact that train drivers are called engineers in the US proves my point. It dilutes the term to be basically meaningless.
        TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        Train drivers being called engineers has nothing to do with this. It is simply a coincidence that they happen to have the same name. They are sometimes called "engineers" but what they do is never called "engineering". No one thinks that the two jobs are the same thing any more than they think that an academic doctor is the same thing as a medical doctor. With software engineers, that is not the case. There is a great deal of academic study in the field of "software engineering". There are, in fact, many places where engineer is not a protected title and to claim otherwise is just wrong. Many large countries like the US, UK and France do not restrict the use of the title engineer. They only restrict something like "Professional Engineer" or "Chartered Engineer".

I don't find that condescending. What I do find condescending is attempting to apply the laws of certain countries to the world as a whole. There are, in fact, many jurisdictions where being an engineer does not require any form of accreditation. The fact that some jurisdictions do require accreditation does not give engineers in other jurisdictions any less claim to the title.

kabouseng 13y ago
Where did I do that? You were the one highlighting America as having the biggest software industry...
- TheCoelacanth 13y ago
  The part where you claimed that only people who are officially accredited are engineers. People who live and work somewhere without such accreditation are completely justified in calling themselves engineers without being accredited.
  - kabouseng 13y ago
    My apologies then, I was not trying to force my viewpoint, I only shared it. Just as I don't believe anyone who's read Gray's anatomy (the book) can or should call themselves a doctor, just the same I don't believe anyone writing code should call themselves an engineer...
    - TheCoelacanth 13y ago
      So, according to your viewpoint, there were no doctor's in the US until the late 1800's?
      - kabouseng 13y ago
        You'll have to provide a bit more context for me. But again comparing modern day professions to the 19th century equivalent does not bode well for your argument. If you'd prefer the medical industry return to its standards and practices of the 19th century, your welcome to visit such a doctor. I prefer my modern day certified medical professional.
        TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        The late 1800's is when doctors were first licensed in the US. Before that doctors practiced medicine but were not licensed, yet they were still doctors. Official licensing undoubtedly raises the quality of doctor's practicing medicine, but it is not an inherent quality of being a doctor. In most places, someone is not allowed to practice medicine without a license, but in places without medical licensing, someone who practices medicine without a license is still a doctor. Engineering is the same. Licensing most likely raises the quality of engineers, but that does not mean an unlicensed person who does the job of an engineer is not an engineer.
        kabouseng 13y ago
        Pray do tell where in the world is an unlicensed medical practitioner called a docter? My point being, in this day and age, to call yourself a docter, you must be licensed. Bringing up history does nothing to change that fact. I would state that should also apply for engineers, and already does in most countries. Merely the fact that train drivers are called engineers in the US proves my point. It dilutes the term to be basically meaningless.
        TheCoelacanth 13y ago
        Train drivers being called engineers has nothing to do with this. It is simply a coincidence that they happen to have the same name. They are sometimes called "engineers" but what they do is never called "engineering". No one thinks that the two jobs are the same thing any more than they think that an academic doctor is the same thing as a medical doctor. With software engineers, that is not the case. There is a great deal of academic study in the field of "software engineering". There are, in fact, many places where engineer is not a protected title and to claim otherwise is just wrong. Many large countries like the US, UK and France do not restrict the use of the title engineer. They only restrict something like "Professional Engineer" or "Chartered Engineer".