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Even assuming that the human brain somehow "works better" in a state of hunger (which this study does not prove), I would still do better work in a state of sat

Even assuming that the human brain somehow "works better" in a state of hunger (which this study does not prove), I would still do better work in a state of satiation. The number one factor for doing good work is to sit down, get in the zone, and stay concentrated on your work. I find that being hungry is very distracting --hunger constantly nagging you out of your task with the urge of getting up and grabbing a snack. So independently of how well hunger makes the brain work, for me hunger is detrimental to the only thing that matters.

sker 13y ago
> I find that being hungry is very distracting --hunger constantly nagging you out of your task with the urge of getting up and grabbing a snack That only applies if you are actually experiencing hunger. I've been doing intermittent fasting for a couple of years and I haven't been hungry one single day - I don't even remember what it feels like. I eat once a day, usually at the end of the day. It's well known that natural level of catecholamines (adrenaline, noradrenaline) are raised during the fast. As a result, most intermittent fasters report increased focus and alertness during this period. This article about ghrelin is yet another piece of the puzzle of why IF works so well for some people.
- a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
  Cortisol is elevated during fasts and thyroid hormone lowered. Endotoxin absorption is increased by large meals. I would guess daily fasting might be a bad idea. It's perhaps like veganism, where after a period of years it could catch up to you in a bad way. Of course it makes sense that people would be a bit sharper with elevated adrenaline and cortisol. But those fundamentally put stress on the body.
  - graeme 13y ago
    What duration of fasts are you referring to? I had seen research on Ramadan fasts that indicated that short term fasting did not increase the total amount of cortisol, though the timing shifted. I was under the impression that short term fasting was metabolically different from term fasting. My source had been Martin Berkhan's blog. He cites the Ramadan literature in point 8. I'm not well placed to evaluate the papers as I lack expertise. http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debun...
    - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
      Ramadan fasting would be a brief period of ~12 hour fasts during the day, right? No biggie. The guy above was saying he eats one big meal every day, indefinitely. I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad idea. The rule of thumb with stress is that low but chronic is way worse than acute. With that in mind maybe don't eat at all one day a week, but get your three squares the other six.
      - pilgrim689 13y ago
        Why three meals per day? If you're not an expert, then can you point to experts saying that eating just once or twice per day is "chronic stress" and a "bad idea"?
        a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
        Why one? Normal humans for approximately forever choose two or three spaced meals. The onus would be on those advocating otherwise. Let me know when you find the study where people ate only one meal a day for a year.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        vidarh 13y ago
        > The onus would be on those advocating otherwise. The onus would be on those making claims. It's for him to support the claim that one a day is healthy, but you are conversely making unsubstantiated claims about the health effects of just eating one meal a day, and the onus is on you to substantiate those. It is one thing to ask him for evidence of his assertion, another to make your own and expect him to disprove them.
      - vidarh 13y ago
        Here's a Ramadan fasting timetable for the UK this year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/shows/ramadan/timetable/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/shows/ramadan/timetable/ So more like 18 hours.
graeme 13y ago
You say you "would still do better". Does this mean you've not actually tested your belief empirically? I find hunger is one of the least well understood of our bodily functions, despite it being accessible to every one of us. Few people test it. From my experience, and from the experience of everyone I've every talked to who tries intermittent fasting: You won't get hungry, once you adapt. Most of us adapted in a few days. I don't eat until 12-1, and I get up around 8. Hunger never bothers me until lunchtime, and I feel clear headed and productive all morning. If you HAVE tried this experiment, then apologies. But I find it very irritating that so many people i. Have very strong opinions on the matter of fasting ii. Have never experimented to see how they react to fasting
- superuser2 13y ago
  Fasting signals your body to aggressively conserve resources, making less available to you and optimizing for maximum fat content. Which is why it's not an effective dieting technique. When you "get used to it" your body has reduced its energy consumption but also the energy available to you and your brain. The mice are doing better at getting themselves fed but I wonder what the impact of hunger is on higher order functions like programming, relationships, management, etc...
  - lbr 13y ago
    I wonder the same thing. For me, I become far more productive and focused when I'm slightly hungry. Great for late night work by myself, reading, emailing. But being hungry also makes me a bit less social... I try not to be hungry when I'm working with people. What I wonder is if I'm more creative when I'm slightly hungry. And I think I am. Hard to quantify.
  - eru 13y ago
    Do you have any support for your speculation? I can spin an equally convincing story, that fasting tells your body to mobilize resources, in order to better catch an animal. And the whole energy-conserving thing is easily testable in a lab, just by looking at metabolic rates. (With a bit more ingenuity you can probably find out how to test it at home, too.)

sker 13y ago

> I find that being hungry is very distracting --hunger constantly nagging you out of your task with the urge of getting up and grabbing a snack That only applies if you are actually experiencing hunger. I've been doing intermittent fasting for a couple of years and I haven't been hungry one single day - I don't even remember what it feels like. I eat once a day, usually at the end of the day. It's well known that natural level of catecholamines (adrenaline, noradrenaline) are raised during the fast. As a result, most intermittent fasters report increased focus and alertness during this period. This article about ghrelin is yet another piece of the puzzle of why IF works so well for some people.

a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
Cortisol is elevated during fasts and thyroid hormone lowered. Endotoxin absorption is increased by large meals. I would guess daily fasting might be a bad idea. It's perhaps like veganism, where after a period of years it could catch up to you in a bad way. Of course it makes sense that people would be a bit sharper with elevated adrenaline and cortisol. But those fundamentally put stress on the body.
- graeme 13y ago
  What duration of fasts are you referring to? I had seen research on Ramadan fasts that indicated that short term fasting did not increase the total amount of cortisol, though the timing shifted. I was under the impression that short term fasting was metabolically different from term fasting. My source had been Martin Berkhan's blog. He cites the Ramadan literature in point 8. I'm not well placed to evaluate the papers as I lack expertise. http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debun...
  - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
    Ramadan fasting would be a brief period of ~12 hour fasts during the day, right? No biggie. The guy above was saying he eats one big meal every day, indefinitely. I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad idea. The rule of thumb with stress is that low but chronic is way worse than acute. With that in mind maybe don't eat at all one day a week, but get your three squares the other six.
    - pilgrim689 13y ago
      Why three meals per day? If you're not an expert, then can you point to experts saying that eating just once or twice per day is "chronic stress" and a "bad idea"?
      - a8da6b0c91d 13y ago
        Why one? Normal humans for approximately forever choose two or three spaced meals. The onus would be on those advocating otherwise. Let me know when you find the study where people ate only one meal a day for a year.
        deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
        vidarh 13y ago
        > The onus would be on those advocating otherwise. The onus would be on those making claims. It's for him to support the claim that one a day is healthy, but you are conversely making unsubstantiated claims about the health effects of just eating one meal a day, and the onus is on you to substantiate those. It is one thing to ask him for evidence of his assertion, another to make your own and expect him to disprove them.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      Here's a Ramadan fasting timetable for the UK this year: http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/shows/ramadan/timetable/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/asiannetwork/shows/ramadan/timetable/ So more like 18 hours.

graeme 13y ago

You say you "would still do better". Does this mean you've not actually tested your belief empirically? I find hunger is one of the least well understood of our bodily functions, despite it being accessible to every one of us. Few people test it. From my experience, and from the experience of everyone I've every talked to who tries intermittent fasting: You won't get hungry, once you adapt. Most of us adapted in a few days. I don't eat until 12-1, and I get up around 8. Hunger never bothers me until lunchtime, and I feel clear headed and productive all morning. If you HAVE tried this experiment, then apologies. But I find it very irritating that so many people i. Have very strong opinions on the matter of fasting ii. Have never experimented to see how they react to fasting

superuser2 13y ago
Fasting signals your body to aggressively conserve resources, making less available to you and optimizing for maximum fat content. Which is why it's not an effective dieting technique. When you "get used to it" your body has reduced its energy consumption but also the energy available to you and your brain. The mice are doing better at getting themselves fed but I wonder what the impact of hunger is on higher order functions like programming, relationships, management, etc...
- lbr 13y ago
  I wonder the same thing. For me, I become far more productive and focused when I'm slightly hungry. Great for late night work by myself, reading, emailing. But being hungry also makes me a bit less social... I try not to be hungry when I'm working with people. What I wonder is if I'm more creative when I'm slightly hungry. And I think I am. Hard to quantify.
- eru 13y ago
  Do you have any support for your speculation? I can spin an equally convincing story, that fasting tells your body to mobilize resources, in order to better catch an animal. And the whole energy-conserving thing is easily testable in a lab, just by looking at metabolic rates. (With a bit more ingenuity you can probably find out how to test it at home, too.)