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I'm not a huge fan of remote work and I'll tell you why. First, though, I'll tell you that I'm currently working remote for an SFO startup and before that, I s

I'm not a huge fan of remote work and I'll tell you why. First, though, I'll tell you that I'm currently working remote for an SFO startup and before that, I spent six years working remote for a large cloud provider based in Texas. Before all of that, I was an on-site worker for the first 14 years of my career. I don't like remote work. It's not because I'm not efficient or don't get shit done (I am and I do). My chief complaint about remote work is how it socially isolates the worker. No matter how many Google Hangouts or morning standups you do, you are losing out on a huge part of the social experience of working onsite. One of the greatest things about working around smart people is the chit-chat that you get by working right next to them. I'm talking about the conversations you have on the way to lunch or standing around the soda fountain. This stuff is spontaneous and fast-flowing and it's precious. As much as I wish this could be replicated over IRC or IM, it just doesn't happen that way. There's something magical about the conversation from four geeks riding together in a car on the way to lunch. The other aspect to social isolation is personal happiness and the desire that most of us have to be in the presence of others. Over the last six years of working remote, I've gotten really tired of being alone all the time. Working from a busy coffee shop helps, but you're still not chit-chatting and you have to contend with shitty Internet connections and poor security (pack up your laptop to use the restroom, etc). Working remote is not all that it's cracked up to be. It took me several years of actually doing it to realize this. I love my job at this awesome company but if I could work onsite and still have my family here with me, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

jasonshen 13y ago
I've never done remote so I'm totally asking because I'm curious: have you ever tried working at a co-working space?
- chrissnell 13y ago
  That's a good question. Yes, I've been wanting to do this for a while but I've not found one in my city (Tacoma, WA) that meets my needs. We do have one and when I toured it on a Tuesday in the early afternoon, it was almost deserted. Definitely not the social place that I want. It might be worth taking the train to Seattle on occasion to work at one of the great co-working places there, which are more focused on startups, new tech, etc.
  - rhizome 13y ago
    If you were working in an office, wouldn't you be likely to be commuting into Seattle? You could recreate that which you are lamenting.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
MJR 13y ago
I completely agree about social isolation and missing the in-between conversations. I also don't think the next generation will suddenly all become insular thinkers because of technology. I'm someone who really enjoys and needs discussions with my coworkers about ideas, strategies or tactics. Some people prefer to take a question and mull it over for a while and return with their thoughts. Others, like me, prefer to think out loud and talk it out. The act of having a conversation - in person - is a major factor in that. When I have tasks to get done that require pure execution then working remotely is fine, people put on headphones in the office during this type of work as well. For everything that requires definition and discussion, reading body language, etc - I prefer and believe that I work better with others in person.
itomatik 13y ago
You could try working at one of those Regus offices in order to have somewhat more social atmosphere.
tyoma 13y ago
Completely agree. I have been working remotely for about a year now. What I miss the most is social interaction and the random ideas that spring from live discussions with other smart people. No amount of video conferencing and IRC has been able to replicate the same environment.
xoail 13y ago
Strongly recommend trying a co-working space nearby. I was at a similar situation and hated every bit of working remote (from home) until I started working from a co-working space near my hours (a couple miles). I made new friends, we have lunches together, play volley-ball at nights and I couldnt be more happier with a great job and friends I made.
- ollysb 13y ago
  This is what I do, it's actually filled with other remote working techies so I don't really feel like I'm getting any of the downsides.
bravura 13y ago
You hit the nail on the head. But your advice is still not applicable for most people. In-person interaction is a hugely valuable thing. The point for remote work, though, is that some people have a spouse or family or friends in a particular location. That location might not be the same as the job you desire. So if the tradeoff for many people is: In-person interaction with those folks vs. in-person interaction with co-workers, most people prefer the former.
- sliverstorm 13y ago
  If working remotely secures you a fantastic job in another city or fits with the role (e.g. dedicated support for B2B customers), by all means. But it's worth acknowledging the downsides when we're talking about someone who has good local choices, or even has a local job but wants to work from home.
hackula1 13y ago
I am in a position where I could work remotely, and I would like to, but for one reason: career advancement. I am pretty early on in my career (about 5 years in), and I have basically two competing routes ahead of me A) be a highly technical dev who will be a high value "mercenary" type or B) move into a technical lead/CTO type role. I always thought that I wanted to do be A, but as I have gotten into product design, building up a team, mentoring, negotiating deals, etc. I have found that I really enjoy B. Being a lone wolf type dev is almost ideal in a remote setting (all of my clients are already off site anyway). Being a manager, technical lead, or anyone core to a business team, however, seems a lot more difficult to pull off. I used to love the idea of working as that story book hacker who can spin out code from a laptop in an RV traveling where ever the wind took me. I work with a guy who literally owns a laptop, a suitcase, and the clothes and toiletries to fill it. Every morning I talk to him he could be in German, Brazil, Japan, or where ever the hell he feels like going. That is awesome, and I highly respect anyone with the spine to live that way, but... At the same time, I want to be in the fight, shaping people instead of just machines. I want to be able to shake the hands of the people I work with, and look my competitors in the eye. For now anyway, I am sticking to the office and reaping the career rewards of being a central figure to my team. TLDR: work can be done from anywhere; leadership.. not as clear.
- fhd2 13y ago
  I'm a lead developer who works remotely, it does work. Most of my team is remoting, but I can imagine that it'd be tricky if all the other developers worked on-site. Since I remote, I do actually get around to some hands-on development, about half of my time currently. I suppose the key to becoming a lead is to join a company early on. If you pick one that's open for remote working, you can nurture that culture and hire people that are good at asynchronous working. That, in turn, puts a lot of talented people in your hiring pool that otherwise weren't there, it's a competitive advantage when it comes to hiring. We still offer relocating for everyone, some people prefer to work in an office and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, I just want my people to be happy and productive.
prawn 13y ago
I wonder if we'll see desk spaces with large screens showing real-time feeds at the end, simulating a co-worker adjacent to you but without the need to be in the office. Benefit of some social side, but able to be paused if you're concentrating. Incidentally, here's That Mitchell and Webb Look on working from home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk
danielhookins 13y ago
I kinda agree, but I think it depends on the type of work, and your own personality. From my perspective it's kinda like a band. Look at the Beatles - they did everything together for almost ten years - and it was that connection with each other that made the band (and as a result, the music) so awesome. The same can be true for business. A team that works together in physical proximity is gonna be so much stronger and have a much better connection with each other. However, if you're working for a huge multi-national corporation that's so big that you don't know the names of everyone in all the other departments - then you're not gonna get that same connection anyway. In this case, you might as well work in whatever way is more efficient and more comfortable for you. For some people it will be the freedom of working remote - for others it will be the structure of a 9-5 work day. Some people (mostly gen-y, but not limited to) find the traditional office-culture too stifling. Everyone is putting on their 'professional persona' in the office. Now it's possible to work remotely and instead hang out with 'real' people.
tejay 13y ago
> Working remote is not all that it's cracked up to be. It took me several years of actually doing it to realize this. I love my job at this awesome company but if I could work onsite and still have my family here with me, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even with all of the not-so-nice things about remote work listed in your post, you've still chosen to work remotely -- to avoid upending your family. And I assume you would probably quit if your company were to say 'move to the Bay Area tomorrow, or else,' out of concern for your family. That's, I think, the key point about remote work. You aren't forced to make that choice. And that alone tells me it's better for workers (and therefore companies). Particularly if you're the best person the for the job (which I assume you are, since you work there!).
- davidw 13y ago
  "Two economists see a Ferrari. "I want one of those," says the first. "obviously not," replies the other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference As always, it's about the economics of various tradeoffs: there are some big advantages to working in person, but there is a wider potential pool of employees who work remotely. In a relatively efficient economy, those firms who can take advantage of the remote workers will do so, whereas those firms that really need people in person will likely stick to people who can be in the office every day. Everyone has to judge for themselves what they prefer.
vectorpush 13y ago
Some people view this is an advantage rather than a disadvantage. In the context of remote work, keeping discretionary social interaction time to a pragmatic minimum means more time available for your friends, loved ones, or even just other personal interests.
- mkramlich 13y ago
  For me it's meant more blocks of uninterrupted time to do intellectual tasks, like the focus & analysis needed to do software engineering with peak efficiency/productivity and innovation, or, deep creative immersion that's ideal to do creative writing (I wrote a book earlier this year, for example). Plus, the things you said: more time for friends, family, naps (when you need it and would be a net win), time off to give your brain/body a break, and to generally work most when you're at peak and work least when you're naturally in a trough. Furthermore, if you have any family or friends with serious health issues/crises that sometimes need you to give them much more time/focus than normal, unplanned, then you also have greater freedom to do that too, without having to "get permission" from an HR department or a manager. Overall, it's a more humane lifestyle I've found. I don't paint it with a perfect/panacea brush, of course, because it does have some disadvantages in comparison to on-site/in-person/office/F2F work, certainly. But lots of advantages that are compelling if your tastes, needs, goals or strengths are different.
kayoone 13y ago
Agree, people often say "but you have more social interactions with your family that way" and while thats true, its still different. There might be new people (or annoying coworkers) in the office regularly that you need to interact with which is different than hanging out only with the people you know anyway. A co-working space could change all that, but i havent really found a good one in my (rather small) german city.
alabut 13y ago
Have you worked on an entire team that worked remote? Or been a remote worker on an otherwise co-located team? Just from personal experience, I've found a huge difference between the two.

jasonshen 13y ago

I've never done remote so I'm totally asking because I'm curious: have you ever tried working at a co-working space?

chrissnell 13y ago
That's a good question. Yes, I've been wanting to do this for a while but I've not found one in my city (Tacoma, WA) that meets my needs. We do have one and when I toured it on a Tuesday in the early afternoon, it was almost deserted. Definitely not the social place that I want. It might be worth taking the train to Seattle on occasion to work at one of the great co-working places there, which are more focused on startups, new tech, etc.
- rhizome 13y ago
  If you were working in an office, wouldn't you be likely to be commuting into Seattle? You could recreate that which you are lamenting.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

MJR 13y ago

I completely agree about social isolation and missing the in-between conversations. I also don't think the next generation will suddenly all become insular thinkers because of technology. I'm someone who really enjoys and needs discussions with my coworkers about ideas, strategies or tactics. Some people prefer to take a question and mull it over for a while and return with their thoughts. Others, like me, prefer to think out loud and talk it out. The act of having a conversation - in person - is a major factor in that. When I have tasks to get done that require pure execution then working remotely is fine, people put on headphones in the office during this type of work as well. For everything that requires definition and discussion, reading body language, etc - I prefer and believe that I work better with others in person.

itomatik 13y ago

You could try working at one of those Regus offices in order to have somewhat more social atmosphere.

tyoma 13y ago

Completely agree. I have been working remotely for about a year now. What I miss the most is social interaction and the random ideas that spring from live discussions with other smart people. No amount of video conferencing and IRC has been able to replicate the same environment.

xoail 13y ago

Strongly recommend trying a co-working space nearby. I was at a similar situation and hated every bit of working remote (from home) until I started working from a co-working space near my hours (a couple miles). I made new friends, we have lunches together, play volley-ball at nights and I couldnt be more happier with a great job and friends I made.

ollysb 13y ago
This is what I do, it's actually filled with other remote working techies so I don't really feel like I'm getting any of the downsides.

bravura 13y ago

You hit the nail on the head. But your advice is still not applicable for most people. In-person interaction is a hugely valuable thing. The point for remote work, though, is that some people have a spouse or family or friends in a particular location. That location might not be the same as the job you desire. So if the tradeoff for many people is: In-person interaction with those folks vs. in-person interaction with co-workers, most people prefer the former.

sliverstorm 13y ago
If working remotely secures you a fantastic job in another city or fits with the role (e.g. dedicated support for B2B customers), by all means. But it's worth acknowledging the downsides when we're talking about someone who has good local choices, or even has a local job but wants to work from home.

hackula1 13y ago

I am in a position where I could work remotely, and I would like to, but for one reason: career advancement. I am pretty early on in my career (about 5 years in), and I have basically two competing routes ahead of me A) be a highly technical dev who will be a high value "mercenary" type or B) move into a technical lead/CTO type role. I always thought that I wanted to do be A, but as I have gotten into product design, building up a team, mentoring, negotiating deals, etc. I have found that I really enjoy B. Being a lone wolf type dev is almost ideal in a remote setting (all of my clients are already off site anyway). Being a manager, technical lead, or anyone core to a business team, however, seems a lot more difficult to pull off. I used to love the idea of working as that story book hacker who can spin out code from a laptop in an RV traveling where ever the wind took me. I work with a guy who literally owns a laptop, a suitcase, and the clothes and toiletries to fill it. Every morning I talk to him he could be in German, Brazil, Japan, or where ever the hell he feels like going. That is awesome, and I highly respect anyone with the spine to live that way, but... At the same time, I want to be in the fight, shaping people instead of just machines. I want to be able to shake the hands of the people I work with, and look my competitors in the eye. For now anyway, I am sticking to the office and reaping the career rewards of being a central figure to my team. TLDR: work can be done from anywhere; leadership.. not as clear.

fhd2 13y ago
I'm a lead developer who works remotely, it does work. Most of my team is remoting, but I can imagine that it'd be tricky if all the other developers worked on-site. Since I remote, I do actually get around to some hands-on development, about half of my time currently. I suppose the key to becoming a lead is to join a company early on. If you pick one that's open for remote working, you can nurture that culture and hire people that are good at asynchronous working. That, in turn, puts a lot of talented people in your hiring pool that otherwise weren't there, it's a competitive advantage when it comes to hiring. We still offer relocating for everyone, some people prefer to work in an office and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, I just want my people to be happy and productive.

prawn 13y ago

I wonder if we'll see desk spaces with large screens showing real-time feeds at the end, simulating a co-worker adjacent to you but without the need to be in the office. Benefit of some social side, but able to be paused if you're concentrating. Incidentally, here's That Mitchell and Webb Look on working from home: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co_DNpTMKXk

danielhookins 13y ago

I kinda agree, but I think it depends on the type of work, and your own personality. From my perspective it's kinda like a band. Look at the Beatles - they did everything together for almost ten years - and it was that connection with each other that made the band (and as a result, the music) so awesome. The same can be true for business. A team that works together in physical proximity is gonna be so much stronger and have a much better connection with each other. However, if you're working for a huge multi-national corporation that's so big that you don't know the names of everyone in all the other departments - then you're not gonna get that same connection anyway. In this case, you might as well work in whatever way is more efficient and more comfortable for you. For some people it will be the freedom of working remote - for others it will be the structure of a 9-5 work day. Some people (mostly gen-y, but not limited to) find the traditional office-culture too stifling. Everyone is putting on their 'professional persona' in the office. Now it's possible to work remotely and instead hang out with 'real' people.

tejay 13y ago

> Working remote is not all that it's cracked up to be. It took me several years of actually doing it to realize this. I love my job at this awesome company but if I could work onsite and still have my family here with me, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even with all of the not-so-nice things about remote work listed in your post, you've still chosen to work remotely -- to avoid upending your family. And I assume you would probably quit if your company were to say 'move to the Bay Area tomorrow, or else,' out of concern for your family. That's, I think, the key point about remote work. You aren't forced to make that choice. And that alone tells me it's better for workers (and therefore companies). Particularly if you're the best person the for the job (which I assume you are, since you work there!).

davidw 13y ago
"Two economists see a Ferrari. "I want one of those," says the first. "obviously not," replies the other. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revealed_preference As always, it's about the economics of various tradeoffs: there are some big advantages to working in person, but there is a wider potential pool of employees who work remotely. In a relatively efficient economy, those firms who can take advantage of the remote workers will do so, whereas those firms that really need people in person will likely stick to people who can be in the office every day. Everyone has to judge for themselves what they prefer.

vectorpush 13y ago

Some people view this is an advantage rather than a disadvantage. In the context of remote work, keeping discretionary social interaction time to a pragmatic minimum means more time available for your friends, loved ones, or even just other personal interests.

mkramlich 13y ago
For me it's meant more blocks of uninterrupted time to do intellectual tasks, like the focus & analysis needed to do software engineering with peak efficiency/productivity and innovation, or, deep creative immersion that's ideal to do creative writing (I wrote a book earlier this year, for example). Plus, the things you said: more time for friends, family, naps (when you need it and would be a net win), time off to give your brain/body a break, and to generally work most when you're at peak and work least when you're naturally in a trough. Furthermore, if you have any family or friends with serious health issues/crises that sometimes need you to give them much more time/focus than normal, unplanned, then you also have greater freedom to do that too, without having to "get permission" from an HR department or a manager. Overall, it's a more humane lifestyle I've found. I don't paint it with a perfect/panacea brush, of course, because it does have some disadvantages in comparison to on-site/in-person/office/F2F work, certainly. But lots of advantages that are compelling if your tastes, needs, goals or strengths are different.

kayoone 13y ago

Agree, people often say "but you have more social interactions with your family that way" and while thats true, its still different. There might be new people (or annoying coworkers) in the office regularly that you need to interact with which is different than hanging out only with the people you know anyway. A co-working space could change all that, but i havent really found a good one in my (rather small) german city.

alabut 13y ago

Have you worked on an entire team that worked remote? Or been a remote worker on an otherwise co-located team? Just from personal experience, I've found a huge difference between the two.