4 ms·

I'm always interested in reading about how people have managed to gain some personal and financial independence. But I find it hard to relate to this article. I

I'm always interested in reading about how people have managed to gain some personal and financial independence. But I find it hard to relate to this article. I guess if you have the runway to just sit around and discover what it is you really want do, then cool. But there's no real plan here, just "oh maybe I'll do freelancing too..yeah that sounds good." Maybe I've just been fortunate, but I've always worked in jobs where I feel I'm getting paid to learn skills that I know will be highly valuable whenever I decide to do something on my own. And I try to work on my own stuff, putting in 10-15 hours a week while still working a full-time job. I'd love to just leave my job, but I don't see why setting aside some solid hours each week isn't enough to get something off the ground. So, unless you're absolutely miserable in your job you shouldn't just leave it unless there's actually some other "thing" you're working on that actually requires your full-time attention. Again, maybe a lot of this post just reflects a sort of path of personal discovery, but it's hard for me to relate to. To me, the lesson is more about finding a job that is fulfilling enough and still leaves you enough time to work on your other stuff with the hopes that your other projects can eventually become self-sustaining and lead you to greater personal and financial independence.

basicallydan 13y ago
Hey xwowsersx! I hear your concerns, thanks for sharing them with me. So, don't worry: I'm not just sitting around. I've been working on a small side project which is nearing completion, and I have another couple that I'd like to start. Plus, there's another long-term project I would like to do as a learning exercise in game design & development over the course of a few weeks. I should be able to get some time for that very soon. Furthermore, I'm a busker on the London Underground, which some people do for a full-time job and I hope to dedicate more time to (I have a financial goal there, too) which includes learning new songs and becoming a better performer. Finally, I do have a short-term (3-4 weeks) freelance project which is looking to be greenlighted coming up, which in itself will also be a learning opportunity. The point is, there's loads of learning happening - and I'm really excited about all of that! "I'd love to just leave my job, but I don't see why setting aside some solid hours each week isn't enough to get something off the ground." - I did this for about a year and a half and I just don't find it satisfying anymore, but I think part of that was because of the job I had. It could be that this is just a short path of personal discovery, and I quickly change my mind - but I kind of want to find out for myself. For a long time, the whole "But Dan, you don't have a startup that is taking up more time than you can handle right now!" thing bugged me but the truth was, a large part of me wanted to quit for a whole multitude of other reasons, which I hope I have expressed somehow, at least between the lines. Anyway, everybody has their own path. Mine, perhaps, seems a bit foolhardy at times, but I've been through some rough patches in life and come out the other side a better person, so even if this turns out to be a huge mistake, I do hope I look back at it and say, "well, that was a useful learning experience." But I don't think it will be a huge mistake ;) Thanks again, I appreciate the realistic viewpoint and honest opinion.
graeme 13y ago
That's a totally fine approach. That said, there's something to be said for burning your bridges. Well, burning your ships, is the better but less known metaphor. I left law school a couple of years ago with a lousy plan to post on American craigslist listings, advertising LSAT tutoring. American rates were far higher than what I could charge in Montreal, Canada. That plan was a total failure. But I was determined not to go back on the path that I was on. I wrote blog posts about the LSAT, and stayed in touch with people in my field. Eventually, an opportunity to be listed on the major blog in the niche came up, and later a chance to write explanations for the LSAT in return for royalties. I also set up a relationship with a company to teach classes for them, something I could not have done if I had still been in school full time. I'm still doing all the things I started in the first dismal 3-4 months after leaving school. I couldn't be happier with how things worked out. If I had just tried it on the side, I never would have gotten so deep into things, and would have missed the opportunities I got. I HAD to find opportunities, because I had left myself no easy road back.
- tostitos1979 13y ago
  I've always romanticized the burning ships metaphor and will embark on my journey in a few months. Graeme ... did you move to the US? I'm a canuck in the US (established, have a decent job) but moving up to Canada in the near future. I don't have any concrete ideas about what I'll be doing ... just want to do something independent like the blog author. You describe your first few months as being dismal. Any advice you care to share?
  - graeme 13y ago
    No, stayed in Canada. I do a lot of Skype tutoring now, and sell books to Americans. There would be some advantages to being in Manhattan, but also dramatically higher rent for an equivalent apartment. I like Neil Gaiman's moving towards the mountain metaphor. I had two objectives: earn recurring revenue, and earn enough in the meantime not to need to take a job. I just kept looking for opportunities that would move me in the direction of those twin goals. Almost everything good that happened to me in the early (and later) days came as the result of talking to people. I emailed a few of the leading blogs in my niche. I cold-called a small company that taught the LSAT, and offered to help them expand to Montreal. There were about five people writing explanations for the author of the leading blog. I contacted all of them. One of them founded a startup in the niche. I worked with them for a while, and still have a good relationship with them. That wouldn't have happened if I hadn't said hi. Talk to people. Always look for opportunities. I got into Reddit early last year. I thought, "too bad there's no LSAT subreddit, I could post my stuff there". Eventually reframed that thought as "why don't I start a subreddit for the LSAT?". That subreddit has now become very popular within the LSAT niche, and it's been very helpful being the moderator there. Think about what skills would help you towards your goal. "If I could do this, what would I know how to do? How would I do it?". I've learned book publishing, enough html/CSS to run a website on Wordpress, and some basic programming which has really helped speed up web page creation. Nothing needs to be permanent. Don't say no to an opportunity if it's not what you want to be doing in five years. Is it useful to you today? I also do SAT tutoring. It doesn't hold much interest for me long term, but the money helped me through several rough patches. Hope that helps. Think about what you want to achieve, and what skills you have to offer that will help you reach those goals. http://www.uarts.edu/neil-gaiman-keynote-address-2012 http://www.uarts.edu/neil-gaiman-keynote-address-2012
alabut 13y ago
There's an entire book about why you're right and the OP's approach is generally the wrong one, called So Good They Can't Ignore You. The OP is exhibiting the classic "passion mindset" - you search your soul for your passions and if you plumb deep enough, you'll magically unlock some cheat code in the world and people will start paying you. The book is a light intro into the field of Self-Determination Theory and it's filled with examples of people following their passion for 6 months before flaming out because no one will pay them for the thing they like to do. Another way to put it is that making money takes practice just like playing the piano does. You're probably not going to wake up one day and realize that an empty calendar is exactly what you need to learn how people will pay you for something that nobody told you to build. http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1985-making-money-takes-practice-like-playing-the-piano-takes-practice http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1985-making-money-takes-pract... http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110301/making-money-small-business-advice-from-jason-fried.html http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110301/making-money-small-busi...
- JoeAltmaier 13y ago
  Sounds like a business school approach, and certainly valid. But to imagine its the only workable approach is silly. Everybody entrepreneur quits the job at some point to take the risk. This guy may (that's the important word) succeed at his own idea, or join someone else's project, or find a group of like-minded people and follow some idea to its conclusion. And sometimes this works. In fact, there are so many examples of this working. Its a mindset: a person with non-entrepreneurial temperament can't imagine trying it, I get that. They go so far as to project their non-risk-taking onto others and claim they're making a mistake. I think of it this way: entrepreneurs are swimming off the beach, splashing and surfing and diving and sailing small boats. A cruise ship comes by, people leaning over the rail and shouting "Get out of the water! You're getting all wet! You'll drown! The tide might go out! There may be sharks and stingy jellyfish!" You can try to calm them, tell them "It's ok, I know how to swim, the water is not that bad, come on in with us!" But its pointless; they will stay on their cruise ship and shout and shake their heads. And that's ok.
- christiangenco 13y ago
  "So Good They Can't Ignore You": http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/1455509124 http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/145550912...
jlees 13y ago
It varies from individual to individual. Some people can't focus well on a side project while working full-time, either because the full-time work eats up all available energy/time or because dissatisfaction at work leads to a low-level depression, making it hard to get motivated to do anything else. (I've been in both situations.) Sure, finding a job that is both rewarding and non-all-consuming such that you can work on side projects too (ignoring any IP ownership issues) is a great solution, but not everyone is in that situation.
websitescenes 13y ago
Totally agree. If you actually do have the passion for an idea, then you will make it regardless if a job. I work full time and work on three startups on the side. Granted, one is a bike shop that my partner mostly runs but the other two are saas style websites. The saas products aren't done but I put in at least a few lines of code a day. Sure, I could finish quicker without a job but I don't care, I think and work better with a bit of security.

basicallydan 13y ago

Hey xwowsersx! I hear your concerns, thanks for sharing them with me. So, don't worry: I'm not just sitting around. I've been working on a small side project which is nearing completion, and I have another couple that I'd like to start. Plus, there's another long-term project I would like to do as a learning exercise in game design & development over the course of a few weeks. I should be able to get some time for that very soon. Furthermore, I'm a busker on the London Underground, which some people do for a full-time job and I hope to dedicate more time to (I have a financial goal there, too) which includes learning new songs and becoming a better performer. Finally, I do have a short-term (3-4 weeks) freelance project which is looking to be greenlighted coming up, which in itself will also be a learning opportunity. The point is, there's loads of learning happening - and I'm really excited about all of that! "I'd love to just leave my job, but I don't see why setting aside some solid hours each week isn't enough to get something off the ground." - I did this for about a year and a half and I just don't find it satisfying anymore, but I think part of that was because of the job I had. It could be that this is just a short path of personal discovery, and I quickly change my mind - but I kind of want to find out for myself. For a long time, the whole "But Dan, you don't have a startup that is taking up more time than you can handle right now!" thing bugged me but the truth was, a large part of me wanted to quit for a whole multitude of other reasons, which I hope I have expressed somehow, at least between the lines. Anyway, everybody has their own path. Mine, perhaps, seems a bit foolhardy at times, but I've been through some rough patches in life and come out the other side a better person, so even if this turns out to be a huge mistake, I do hope I look back at it and say, "well, that was a useful learning experience." But I don't think it will be a huge mistake ;) Thanks again, I appreciate the realistic viewpoint and honest opinion.

graeme 13y ago

That's a totally fine approach. That said, there's something to be said for burning your bridges. Well, burning your ships, is the better but less known metaphor. I left law school a couple of years ago with a lousy plan to post on American craigslist listings, advertising LSAT tutoring. American rates were far higher than what I could charge in Montreal, Canada. That plan was a total failure. But I was determined not to go back on the path that I was on. I wrote blog posts about the LSAT, and stayed in touch with people in my field. Eventually, an opportunity to be listed on the major blog in the niche came up, and later a chance to write explanations for the LSAT in return for royalties. I also set up a relationship with a company to teach classes for them, something I could not have done if I had still been in school full time. I'm still doing all the things I started in the first dismal 3-4 months after leaving school. I couldn't be happier with how things worked out. If I had just tried it on the side, I never would have gotten so deep into things, and would have missed the opportunities I got. I HAD to find opportunities, because I had left myself no easy road back.

tostitos1979 13y ago
I've always romanticized the burning ships metaphor and will embark on my journey in a few months. Graeme ... did you move to the US? I'm a canuck in the US (established, have a decent job) but moving up to Canada in the near future. I don't have any concrete ideas about what I'll be doing ... just want to do something independent like the blog author. You describe your first few months as being dismal. Any advice you care to share?
- graeme 13y ago
  No, stayed in Canada. I do a lot of Skype tutoring now, and sell books to Americans. There would be some advantages to being in Manhattan, but also dramatically higher rent for an equivalent apartment. I like Neil Gaiman's moving towards the mountain metaphor. I had two objectives: earn recurring revenue, and earn enough in the meantime not to need to take a job. I just kept looking for opportunities that would move me in the direction of those twin goals. Almost everything good that happened to me in the early (and later) days came as the result of talking to people. I emailed a few of the leading blogs in my niche. I cold-called a small company that taught the LSAT, and offered to help them expand to Montreal. There were about five people writing explanations for the author of the leading blog. I contacted all of them. One of them founded a startup in the niche. I worked with them for a while, and still have a good relationship with them. That wouldn't have happened if I hadn't said hi. Talk to people. Always look for opportunities. I got into Reddit early last year. I thought, "too bad there's no LSAT subreddit, I could post my stuff there". Eventually reframed that thought as "why don't I start a subreddit for the LSAT?". That subreddit has now become very popular within the LSAT niche, and it's been very helpful being the moderator there. Think about what skills would help you towards your goal. "If I could do this, what would I know how to do? How would I do it?". I've learned book publishing, enough html/CSS to run a website on Wordpress, and some basic programming which has really helped speed up web page creation. Nothing needs to be permanent. Don't say no to an opportunity if it's not what you want to be doing in five years. Is it useful to you today? I also do SAT tutoring. It doesn't hold much interest for me long term, but the money helped me through several rough patches. Hope that helps. Think about what you want to achieve, and what skills you have to offer that will help you reach those goals. http://www.uarts.edu/neil-gaiman-keynote-address-2012 http://www.uarts.edu/neil-gaiman-keynote-address-2012

alabut 13y ago

There's an entire book about why you're right and the OP's approach is generally the wrong one, called So Good They Can't Ignore You. The OP is exhibiting the classic "passion mindset" - you search your soul for your passions and if you plumb deep enough, you'll magically unlock some cheat code in the world and people will start paying you. The book is a light intro into the field of Self-Determination Theory and it's filled with examples of people following their passion for 6 months before flaming out because no one will pay them for the thing they like to do. Another way to put it is that making money takes practice just like playing the piano does. You're probably not going to wake up one day and realize that an empty calendar is exactly what you need to learn how people will pay you for something that nobody told you to build. http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1985-making-money-takes-practice-like-playing-the-piano-takes-practice http://37signals.com/svn/posts/1985-making-money-takes-pract... http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110301/making-money-small-business-advice-from-jason-fried.html http://www.inc.com/magazine/20110301/making-money-small-busi...

JoeAltmaier 13y ago
Sounds like a business school approach, and certainly valid. But to imagine its the only workable approach is silly. Everybody entrepreneur quits the job at some point to take the risk. This guy may (that's the important word) succeed at his own idea, or join someone else's project, or find a group of like-minded people and follow some idea to its conclusion. And sometimes this works. In fact, there are so many examples of this working. Its a mindset: a person with non-entrepreneurial temperament can't imagine trying it, I get that. They go so far as to project their non-risk-taking onto others and claim they're making a mistake. I think of it this way: entrepreneurs are swimming off the beach, splashing and surfing and diving and sailing small boats. A cruise ship comes by, people leaning over the rail and shouting "Get out of the water! You're getting all wet! You'll drown! The tide might go out! There may be sharks and stingy jellyfish!" You can try to calm them, tell them "It's ok, I know how to swim, the water is not that bad, come on in with us!" But its pointless; they will stay on their cruise ship and shout and shake their heads. And that's ok.
christiangenco 13y ago
"So Good They Can't Ignore You": http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/1455509124 http://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You/dp/145550912...

jlees 13y ago

It varies from individual to individual. Some people can't focus well on a side project while working full-time, either because the full-time work eats up all available energy/time or because dissatisfaction at work leads to a low-level depression, making it hard to get motivated to do anything else. (I've been in both situations.) Sure, finding a job that is both rewarding and non-all-consuming such that you can work on side projects too (ignoring any IP ownership issues) is a great solution, but not everyone is in that situation.

websitescenes 13y ago

Totally agree. If you actually do have the passion for an idea, then you will make it regardless if a job. I work full time and work on three startups on the side. Granted, one is a bike shop that my partner mostly runs but the other two are saas style websites. The saas products aren't done but I put in at least a few lines of code a day. Sure, I could finish quicker without a job but I don't care, I think and work better with a bit of security.