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I don't know about Ruby but Perl certainly isn't strongly typed. You can run 'print "5.0" + 6' and get 11 as the answer. That's weak typing and types are implic

by yason 13y ago

I don't know about Ruby but Perl certainly isn't strongly typed. You can run 'print "5.0" + 6' and get 11 as the answer. That's weak typing and types are implicitly converted to whatever. Python is strongly typed only for the basic scalar types. With objects and classes there are just objects that may or may not have certain bound functions and attributes. Duck-typing is mostly perfectly sufficient since any errors do come out in practice, and there's no need for interfaces or classes as unique types, but what would be really helpful would be to have Clojure-like multimethods where dispatching of a function is itself a function of the arguments given in. That would be what would most alleviate the problems that arise from everything being a object() in Python.

jsmeaton 13y ago
Sorry, but what are the problems with everything being an object? That's a feature. Python 3.4 now has @singledispatch, though I don't know where I'd use that yet.
eonil 13y ago
Ruby is strongly typed. I am not sure that's static or dynamic, but regardless of how it is implemented, Ruby lacks ability to offer type information to code-writing level toolsets because it doesn't force retaining of type information on field and function parameters. So regardless of whatever actually happens, to the tools, each Ruby function is just all dealing with unknown type parameter objects. As a conclusion, Ruby has type, but has no way to utilize it. I think any other popular scripting language - such as Python, JS, Lua… are in same situation. V8 does speculative strong dynamic typing, but the those generated informations are completely useless to code-writing level tools.
- jsmeaton 13y ago
  And users of dynamically typed languages will sometimes argue that the need for code generation tools is less necessary. You lose the ability to have tools do a lot of the work, but you also lose the need to have tools do a lot of the work. It's a trade off. Type [an]notations are also useful for compilers when generating performant code. But projects like pypy and V8 (javascript) show that a well written interpreter can do run-time analysis, and generate performant code, just like a static analysis.

by yason 13y ago

jsmeaton 13y ago

Sorry, but what are the problems with everything being an object? That's a feature. Python 3.4 now has @singledispatch, though I don't know where I'd use that yet.

eonil 13y ago

Ruby is strongly typed. I am not sure that's static or dynamic, but regardless of how it is implemented, Ruby lacks ability to offer type information to code-writing level toolsets because it doesn't force retaining of type information on field and function parameters. So regardless of whatever actually happens, to the tools, each Ruby function is just all dealing with unknown type parameter objects. As a conclusion, Ruby has type, but has no way to utilize it. I think any other popular scripting language - such as Python, JS, Lua… are in same situation. V8 does speculative strong dynamic typing, but the those generated informations are completely useless to code-writing level tools.

jsmeaton 13y ago
And users of dynamically typed languages will sometimes argue that the need for code generation tools is less necessary. You lose the ability to have tools do a lot of the work, but you also lose the need to have tools do a lot of the work. It's a trade off. Type [an]notations are also useful for compilers when generating performant code. But projects like pypy and V8 (javascript) show that a well written interpreter can do run-time analysis, and generate performant code, just like a static analysis.