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That's not the conclusion I made at all, mostly because "our whole structure of the society is racist" doesn't mean much to me, or Ignatiev, someone who has cri

That's not the conclusion I made at all, mostly because "our whole structure of the society is racist" doesn't mean much to me, or Ignatiev, someone who has criticized the unilateral use of the word "racist" as a stand-in for actual discussion of specific sociological phenomena and conditions. Ignatiev calls for a destruction of whiteness as he frames whiteness; where does he talk about what "society" should be like after? He seems explicitly against "reform". Your last line indicates that you already have a staked-out emotional attitude, so I'm more writing this for anyone watching than to actually try to have discourse with you.

smsm42 13y ago
Just as the capitalist system is not a capitalist plot, so racial oppression is not the work of "racists." It is maintained by the principal institutions of society etc. etc. If you would nitpick that I said "racist" but he says "racial oppression" - OK, I'm fine with changing it as "our whole structure of the society is racially oppressive", doesn't change the main point. >>> where does he talk about what "society" should be like after I don't think many Marxists every had clear vision of that, and it is certain it never came to look like they envisioned, however vaguely. The society Ignatiev strives for has no "white privilege", but it means as much as "communism" would mean for somebody in 1917 - a dream, no more. In any society where inequality exists one could attribute "privilege" to those who are better off, and you could call them "white". So I would have hard time describing the society where it is not possible - but I'm pretty certain it would have little to do with what we have now. >>> so I'm more writing this for anyone watching than to actually try to have discourse with you. I'm sorry my low esteem for Ignatiev offends you. You do not have to suffer the indignity of debating opposing opinion, of course. Ignoring unpleasant opinions is always an option.
yetanotherphd 13y ago
His last line was hilarious, you should chill.

smsm42 13y ago

Just as the capitalist system is not a capitalist plot, so racial oppression is not the work of "racists." It is maintained by the principal institutions of society etc. etc. If you would nitpick that I said "racist" but he says "racial oppression" - OK, I'm fine with changing it as "our whole structure of the society is racially oppressive", doesn't change the main point. >>> where does he talk about what "society" should be like after I don't think many Marxists every had clear vision of that, and it is certain it never came to look like they envisioned, however vaguely. The society Ignatiev strives for has no "white privilege", but it means as much as "communism" would mean for somebody in 1917 - a dream, no more. In any society where inequality exists one could attribute "privilege" to those who are better off, and you could call them "white". So I would have hard time describing the society where it is not possible - but I'm pretty certain it would have little to do with what we have now. >>> so I'm more writing this for anyone watching than to actually try to have discourse with you. I'm sorry my low esteem for Ignatiev offends you. You do not have to suffer the indignity of debating opposing opinion, of course. Ignoring unpleasant opinions is always an option.

yetanotherphd 13y ago

His last line was hilarious, you should chill.