4 ms·

Quite unfair. When I commuted by bike in SF for a couple years, I wore hi-vis clothing, front and rear lights even when it wasn't dark yet (especially at dusk!)

Quite unfair. When I commuted by bike in SF for a couple years, I wore hi-vis clothing, front and rear lights even when it wasn't dark yet (especially at dusk!), and stuck to designated bike routes with calmer traffic when possible. And every day I saw hundreds of other cyclists just like me who didn't have a death wish. The (small-y) yahoos who ride dangerously certainly stand out more, but it's depressing to have folks like you throw up their hands and say, effectively: Too bad there's nothing we can do to make cycling safer, since too many cyclists just "want to die".

kika 13y ago
I don't see such classy combination at once often, it's just a sum of everything I see. But running lights and stops is very-very common here.
001sky 13y ago
SF has problems with people running lights and stop signs because of the hills. I think its dis-ingenuous to deny this. It may be different in soma/mission, where the topography is completely different. But in the financial district (lots of 1 ways, no left turns, hills, tourists, etc) and around market street...the whole industry of bike messengers (ie, 30 years of history) is predicated on them not following traffic rules. Actually, that might be a little strong. But you get my point. They make money because they are faster...and the way to be faster than traffic is not not go with the flow.
- chockablock 13y ago
  >I think its dis-ingenuous to deny this I didn't mention stop signs or red lights in my comment. I just pointed out that there's a large population of conscientious, safety-minded cyclists out there who get ignored in these types of discussions. Your invocation of law-breaking bike messengers in the second half of your comment is in fact a perfect recapitulation of the tendency I was referring to!
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Previous commenter was giving an example of 'suicidal' riding. The fact that others ride in a responsible manner does not serve as a counter-factual. That's all I was saying. That, and I believe that there are reasons other than "irrational crazy" why people ride the way they do. Can you do a trakcstand on the side of a steep hill? How about ingress/egree from a clippless pedal? That stuff is hard and slow, so people take "shortcuts" around norms of doing things (eg, run stop signs, go up one-way streets, etc) that are more rational to them than "giving up the bike". Either because they need the money or just like the fitness/lifestyle/image etc. Its not even that you need to :"look down" on these guys...just you can't have a policy discussion and pretend they don't exist. =D

kika 13y ago

I don't see such classy combination at once often, it's just a sum of everything I see. But running lights and stops is very-very common here.

001sky 13y ago

SF has problems with people running lights and stop signs because of the hills. I think its dis-ingenuous to deny this. It may be different in soma/mission, where the topography is completely different. But in the financial district (lots of 1 ways, no left turns, hills, tourists, etc) and around market street...the whole industry of bike messengers (ie, 30 years of history) is predicated on them not following traffic rules. Actually, that might be a little strong. But you get my point. They make money because they are faster...and the way to be faster than traffic is not not go with the flow.

chockablock 13y ago
>I think its dis-ingenuous to deny this I didn't mention stop signs or red lights in my comment. I just pointed out that there's a large population of conscientious, safety-minded cyclists out there who get ignored in these types of discussions. Your invocation of law-breaking bike messengers in the second half of your comment is in fact a perfect recapitulation of the tendency I was referring to!
- 001sky 13y ago
  Previous commenter was giving an example of 'suicidal' riding. The fact that others ride in a responsible manner does not serve as a counter-factual. That's all I was saying. That, and I believe that there are reasons other than "irrational crazy" why people ride the way they do. Can you do a trakcstand on the side of a steep hill? How about ingress/egree from a clippless pedal? That stuff is hard and slow, so people take "shortcuts" around norms of doing things (eg, run stop signs, go up one-way streets, etc) that are more rational to them than "giving up the bike". Either because they need the money or just like the fitness/lifestyle/image etc. Its not even that you need to :"look down" on these guys...just you can't have a policy discussion and pretend they don't exist. =D