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“Free speech is uniquely important to the University because we are a community committed to reason and rational discourse. Free interchange of ideas is vital f

by 001sky 13y ago

“Free speech is uniquely important to the University because we are a community committed to reason and rational discourse. Free interchange of ideas is vital for our primary function of discovering and disseminating ideas through research, teaching, and learning. Curtailment of free speech undercuts the intellectual freedom that defines our purpose. It also deprives some individuals of the right to express unpopular views and others of the right to listen to unpopular views.* Signed, The Thought Police. ______ http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k72845&pageid=icb.page368059 http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k72845&pageid=i...

objclxt 13y ago
I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Firstly, you're posting a Harvard FAS resolution, but Harvard isn't even mentioned in the NYT article. I don't know why you bring it up. Secondly, I think it should be pretty obvious that there's a difference between being able to say what you want as a faculty member or enrolled student and being able to say what you want as an applicant. There are lots of good arguments as to why college admissions officers shouldn't be using social media to weigh up an application, but I'm not sure the argument you're making is one of them.
- 001sky 13y ago
  (1) Free speech is uniquely important to the university; (2) We select out those who exercise their rights. (3) We're f@_king hypocrites. (4) Because of (3) You are only free to express our views (2) or no views. _______________ Empirical example: Its worth doing some research on Elena Kagan. [In 2001, she was named a full professor and in 2003 was named Dean of the Law School by Harvard University President]. Now on SCOTUS. "because we are a community committed to reason and rational discourse" Imagine a candidate for the U.S. Senate who has never taken a public stand on almost any policy issue. Imagine that her campaign consists of asking people for their support because, according to friends and colleagues, the candidate is smart, fair, and good to others. When her friends are asked what her views are on various political matters, they reply that they don't know-but that they're confident she'd make an excellent senator. That worked, well. _______________ Sounds like someone who really values free speech, huh? ________________ But this is not cherry picking, its common TCW: Kagan Follows Precedent by Offering Few Opinions (NYT) Solicitor General Holds Views Close To Her Chest (NPR) The Lingering Mystery Around Elena Kagan (CBS)
  - eropple 13y ago
    Are you unfamiliar with the detail that "free speech" refers to governmental reaction to speech, or are you just ignoring it?
    - 001sky 13y ago
      As adopted by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences on February 13 and May 15, 1990. I'm quoting the official position of the university. Their policy is not a government policy. It is a policy that governs speech in the university environment. http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic847338.files/FS_Guidelines_1990.pdf http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic847338.files/FS_G... So, I would say about your comment: it might not be 'false', but to the extent its relevant it is only so narrowly (ie, its 'trivially' true).
      - eropple 13y ago
        I find it funny that you're complaining about relevance when you're trying to brandish as damning a document (from a completely unrelated school, no less) where you can see "the following guidelines are intended to apply to all gatherings under the auspices of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences" on the first page. It makes no claims as to the public forum--it makes no claims as to the classroom, even, let alone anything outside of their auspices! You may find what I said trivially true. I find what you say somewhere much closer to 'dishonest'.
        001sky 13y ago
        I find what you say somewhere much closer to 'dishonest'. The great thing about irony, is that it makes no such pretense. ____________ i·ro·ny ˈīrənē,ˈiərnē/ noun noun: irony 1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
  - slurry 13y ago
    The law school isn't part of FAS. And free speech includes the right to say nothing, even if for careerist advantage.
adestefan 13y ago
You're more than welcome to say whatever the hell you'd like. Just don't be surprised if that comes back to bite you in the ass some day.
- 001sky 13y ago
  The problem with the truth as you state it, is that it pierces the veil. You are now just another guy running a 501c(3) PAC. Which increases the attack surface and subjects your political and cultural position of priveledge to being undermined systemically. This is precisely why "political correctness" is the ideology of the modern university. Its a strategy to minimize that attack surface. /. end rant.
  - adestefan 13y ago
    It's not the "ideology of the modern university." It's the ideology from the time people first gathered into groups. You don't piss off the people who bring you your food, your shelter, etc. That's why it's nice to be independent.
    - 001sky 13y ago
      Fair points.
crassus 13y ago
Harvard might not be as bad as some other schools, but then again we saw what they did to Larry Summers[1]. [1] http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/11/the_slow_death_of_free_speech_.html http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/11/the_slow_d...
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  Made a lot of sound and fury about Larry Summers while pointedly ignoring the real problem[1]? [1] http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science

by 001sky 13y ago

objclxt 13y ago

I don't really understand the point you're trying to make. Firstly, you're posting a Harvard FAS resolution, but Harvard isn't even mentioned in the NYT article. I don't know why you bring it up. Secondly, I think it should be pretty obvious that there's a difference between being able to say what you want as a faculty member or enrolled student and being able to say what you want as an applicant. There are lots of good arguments as to why college admissions officers shouldn't be using social media to weigh up an application, but I'm not sure the argument you're making is one of them.

001sky 13y ago
(1) Free speech is uniquely important to the university; (2) We select out those who exercise their rights. (3) We're f@_king hypocrites. (4) Because of (3) You are only free to express our views (2) or no views. _______________ Empirical example: Its worth doing some research on Elena Kagan. [In 2001, she was named a full professor and in 2003 was named Dean of the Law School by Harvard University President]. Now on SCOTUS. "because we are a community committed to reason and rational discourse" Imagine a candidate for the U.S. Senate who has never taken a public stand on almost any policy issue. Imagine that her campaign consists of asking people for their support because, according to friends and colleagues, the candidate is smart, fair, and good to others. When her friends are asked what her views are on various political matters, they reply that they don't know-but that they're confident she'd make an excellent senator. That worked, well. _______________ Sounds like someone who really values free speech, huh? ________________ But this is not cherry picking, its common TCW: Kagan Follows Precedent by Offering Few Opinions (NYT) Solicitor General Holds Views Close To Her Chest (NPR) The Lingering Mystery Around Elena Kagan (CBS)
- eropple 13y ago
  Are you unfamiliar with the detail that "free speech" refers to governmental reaction to speech, or are you just ignoring it?
  - 001sky 13y ago
    As adopted by the Faculty of Arts and Sciences on February 13 and May 15, 1990. I'm quoting the official position of the university. Their policy is not a government policy. It is a policy that governs speech in the university environment. http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic847338.files/FS_Guidelines_1990.pdf http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic847338.files/FS_G... So, I would say about your comment: it might not be 'false', but to the extent its relevant it is only so narrowly (ie, its 'trivially' true).
    - eropple 13y ago
      I find it funny that you're complaining about relevance when you're trying to brandish as damning a document (from a completely unrelated school, no less) where you can see "the following guidelines are intended to apply to all gatherings under the auspices of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences" on the first page. It makes no claims as to the public forum--it makes no claims as to the classroom, even, let alone anything outside of their auspices! You may find what I said trivially true. I find what you say somewhere much closer to 'dishonest'.
      - 001sky 13y ago
        I find what you say somewhere much closer to 'dishonest'. The great thing about irony, is that it makes no such pretense. ____________ i·ro·ny ˈīrənē,ˈiərnē/ noun noun: irony 1. the expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
- slurry 13y ago
  The law school isn't part of FAS. And free speech includes the right to say nothing, even if for careerist advantage.

adestefan 13y ago

You're more than welcome to say whatever the hell you'd like. Just don't be surprised if that comes back to bite you in the ass some day.

001sky 13y ago
The problem with the truth as you state it, is that it pierces the veil. You are now just another guy running a 501c(3) PAC. Which increases the attack surface and subjects your political and cultural position of priveledge to being undermined systemically. This is precisely why "political correctness" is the ideology of the modern university. Its a strategy to minimize that attack surface. /. end rant.
- adestefan 13y ago
  It's not the "ideology of the modern university." It's the ideology from the time people first gathered into groups. You don't piss off the people who bring you your food, your shelter, etc. That's why it's nice to be independent.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Fair points.

crassus 13y ago

Harvard might not be as bad as some other schools, but then again we saw what they did to Larry Summers[1]. [1] http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/11/the_slow_death_of_free_speech_.html http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/11/the_slow_d...

eli_gottlieb 13y ago
Made a lot of sound and fury about Larry Summers while pointedly ignoring the real problem[1]? [1] http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science