4 ms·

I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice. If you want to get glutamates in your food, when cooking with meat p

I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice. If you want to get glutamates in your food, when cooking with meat proteins, add mushrooms, seaweed, or even a single prawn or anchovy.

gwern 13y ago
> I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice. Yes, I remember there being a British, I think, study in 2011 or 2012 that bought samples of cooked rice from various oriental food sellers and found that some were contaminated (moist warm food left out for hours); the reasoning is that when people report sickness or allergy to the MSG that oriental food in the West is notoriously prepared with, they're actually having issues with the rice.
- scarmig 13y ago
  Huh, is this bad? I typically cook enough rice in a rice cooker for two days and leave it out and haven't had any adverse symptoms...
  - tedunangst 13y ago
    There are probably fewer people coughing and sneezing in your kitchen than the average restaurant. :)
  - djeikyb 13y ago
    It's considered a dangerous practice. The general rule is food has four hours outside of its proper storage environment before it must be thrown away. Eg, leave the milk on the counter for an hour, put it back in the fridge, leave it out another three hours, and now you should throw it out. I don't have a link, but I'm citing ServSafe, a program that nationally certifies people for food safety (targeted to federal and state requirements for food service). You might also consider the ambient temp of your kitchen. Pro kitchens run several hours a day, staying fairly warm the whole time (might have several ovens, tens of burners, and other hot equipment running throughout the day). Your kitchen, even with the rice cooker going, might stay fairly cool, and so bad bacteria has less time to grow. Food safety is also talked about in terms of risk to different groups. Young children, pregnant mothers, and old adults are at higher risk than younger adults.
    - sk5t 13y ago
      Two hours between 39F-140F is the official limit. This may be a bit conservative depending on one's consitution, gut flora, etc. (I've gone almost 20 years without losing my lunch, eating at hundreds of restaurants from spotless to quite dodgy over that period, so who knows...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_zone_(food_safety) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_zone_(food_safety)
  - DanBC 13y ago
    Rice is a major cause of food poisoning. http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/Can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning.aspx?CategoryID=51&SubCategoryID=215 http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/Can-reheating-rice-cause-food-po... > You can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem but the way the rice has been stored before it was reheated. > Uncooked rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, a bacterium that can cause food poisoning. When the rice is cooked, the spores can survive. > If the rice is left standing at room temperature, the spores can grow into bacteria. These bacteria will multiply and may produce toxins (poisons) that cause vomiting or diarrhoea. > The longer cooked rice is left at room temperature, the more likely it is that the bacteria or toxins could make the rice unsafe to eat. Reheating the rice does kill the bacteria, but does nothing to the toxins.
- wahnfrieden 13y ago
  Off-topic, but in case you're not using British English, please be aware that "oriental" is largely considered pejorative and offensive.
  - gwern 13y ago
    It's funny you flag that, because that was the part I spent the most time pondering how to word. 'Japanese'? No, because it's more Chinese restaurants I think of as being the problem. 'Chinese'? Except, well, the food served there isn't a whole lot like actual Chinese food, I am given to understand, and this problem applies to anyone who uses a lot of rice, so Korean or Thai food seem like they might have problems. 'East Asian'? But is Thailand really 'East Asian'? And again, none of this stuff is particularly authentic... Ah, fuck it: 'oriental'. It even conveys correctly that this is all food as warped by Western consumers' preferences and demands and not necessarily reflective of the original countries.
    - rangibaby 13y ago
      Chinese-style food? In Japan it is common to refer to Thai, Vietnamese etc. as "Asian".
    - wahnfrieden 13y ago
      Not sure how to help you find a better word without seeing the study itself to know precisely what they observed. For inauthentic Chinese etc. food, there are a number of descriptors - pan-Asian, Asian fusion, Americanized Chinese food, or just a short phrase ("Asian-influenced cuisine catering to Western palate" or whatever). You might've used it in an ironic sense but that's easily lost on readers.
  - Daniel_Newby 13y ago
    [citation desired] I'd love to know who dislikes "oriental". And do they like or dislike "occidental"?
    - wahnfrieden 13y ago
      Are you interested in who, or why?

gwern 13y ago

> I've heard that the sickness associated with MSG is more likely due to ingesting old rice. Yes, I remember there being a British, I think, study in 2011 or 2012 that bought samples of cooked rice from various oriental food sellers and found that some were contaminated (moist warm food left out for hours); the reasoning is that when people report sickness or allergy to the MSG that oriental food in the West is notoriously prepared with, they're actually having issues with the rice.

scarmig 13y ago
Huh, is this bad? I typically cook enough rice in a rice cooker for two days and leave it out and haven't had any adverse symptoms...
- tedunangst 13y ago
  There are probably fewer people coughing and sneezing in your kitchen than the average restaurant. :)
- djeikyb 13y ago
  It's considered a dangerous practice. The general rule is food has four hours outside of its proper storage environment before it must be thrown away. Eg, leave the milk on the counter for an hour, put it back in the fridge, leave it out another three hours, and now you should throw it out. I don't have a link, but I'm citing ServSafe, a program that nationally certifies people for food safety (targeted to federal and state requirements for food service). You might also consider the ambient temp of your kitchen. Pro kitchens run several hours a day, staying fairly warm the whole time (might have several ovens, tens of burners, and other hot equipment running throughout the day). Your kitchen, even with the rice cooker going, might stay fairly cool, and so bad bacteria has less time to grow. Food safety is also talked about in terms of risk to different groups. Young children, pregnant mothers, and old adults are at higher risk than younger adults.
  - sk5t 13y ago
    Two hours between 39F-140F is the official limit. This may be a bit conservative depending on one's consitution, gut flora, etc. (I've gone almost 20 years without losing my lunch, eating at hundreds of restaurants from spotless to quite dodgy over that period, so who knows...) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_zone_(food_safety) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_zone_(food_safety)
- DanBC 13y ago
  Rice is a major cause of food poisoning. http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/Can-reheating-rice-cause-food-poisoning.aspx?CategoryID=51&SubCategoryID=215 http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/Can-reheating-rice-cause-food-po... > You can get food poisoning from eating reheated rice. However, it's not the reheating that causes the problem but the way the rice has been stored before it was reheated. > Uncooked rice can contain spores of Bacillus cereus, a bacterium that can cause food poisoning. When the rice is cooked, the spores can survive. > If the rice is left standing at room temperature, the spores can grow into bacteria. These bacteria will multiply and may produce toxins (poisons) that cause vomiting or diarrhoea. > The longer cooked rice is left at room temperature, the more likely it is that the bacteria or toxins could make the rice unsafe to eat. Reheating the rice does kill the bacteria, but does nothing to the toxins.
wahnfrieden 13y ago
Off-topic, but in case you're not using British English, please be aware that "oriental" is largely considered pejorative and offensive.
- gwern 13y ago
  It's funny you flag that, because that was the part I spent the most time pondering how to word. 'Japanese'? No, because it's more Chinese restaurants I think of as being the problem. 'Chinese'? Except, well, the food served there isn't a whole lot like actual Chinese food, I am given to understand, and this problem applies to anyone who uses a lot of rice, so Korean or Thai food seem like they might have problems. 'East Asian'? But is Thailand really 'East Asian'? And again, none of this stuff is particularly authentic... Ah, fuck it: 'oriental'. It even conveys correctly that this is all food as warped by Western consumers' preferences and demands and not necessarily reflective of the original countries.
  - rangibaby 13y ago
    Chinese-style food? In Japan it is common to refer to Thai, Vietnamese etc. as "Asian".
  - wahnfrieden 13y ago
    Not sure how to help you find a better word without seeing the study itself to know precisely what they observed. For inauthentic Chinese etc. food, there are a number of descriptors - pan-Asian, Asian fusion, Americanized Chinese food, or just a short phrase ("Asian-influenced cuisine catering to Western palate" or whatever). You might've used it in an ironic sense but that's easily lost on readers.
- Daniel_Newby 13y ago
  [citation desired] I'd love to know who dislikes "oriental". And do they like or dislike "occidental"?
  - wahnfrieden 13y ago
    Are you interested in who, or why?