7 ms·

Meet the American Nomads of Walmart's Plentiful Parking Lots

74 points by kposehn 13y ago

pdelbarba 13y ago
This article doesn't seem to cover much but I'd be curious to know the implications of this. Is this very common? How long do people stay? Are these people making trips or living there? I've heard a lot about crime occurring in Walmart parking lots, does this have any effect?
- VLM 13y ago
  "I've heard a lot about crime occurring in Walmart parking lots, does this have any effect?" My parents RVed around the country when they semi-retired and occasionally got stuck at walmart (Reservations? Sir I am sorry but I have no record of you ever having made reservations... etc) Real criminals like empty lots and good numerical odds, so its extremely dangerous to be in a deserted shopping mall lot completely alone except for the crooks at 3am, or at a park all alone, or anything like that. Its not just walmart, some campgrounds are pretty sketchy during the empty work week. On the other hand trivial "crime" is much worse at walmart if by crime you mean "turned the radio up a little too loud at 8pm to cover sound of having sex" which might technically be a noise violation, but its not exactly armed carjacking or murder. RVers talk a lot to other RVers and from what I heard from my parents, the culture is very bovine, stay in the herd for safety. The more people in the lot sleeping, the safer the lot is by definition. You have to have serious guts, or be a police sting, to be the only vehicle in the lot. I would imagine the homeless are about the same. They want/need a good nights sleep and a screaming crime victim is not going to help them sleep, so there's more than a little self policing. There's ten guys here sleeping every night, and tonight there's one outsider checking door handles and prowling, well, there's going to be ten really pissed off guys if the interloper succeeds, so you do the math on what happens to the one interloper... There is also a lot of bias in that RV national park touring means visiting civilized rural areas not uncivilized urban areas. So that means a lot of hunters and concealed carry and an armed society is a polite society and all that stuff. So a rural Idaho walmart parking lot where 10% of the people carry is likely near infinitely safer than a Chicago walmart in the bad part of town where all the victims are disarmed. As such my parents experience visiting national and state parks may not be representative of urban ghetto walmart parking lots. The experience of a cow herd in the presence of wolves varies greatly if some random selection of the cows have razor sharp teeth and pointy horns vs a herd where everybody knows all the cows are completely defenseless so go have as much "fun" as you want.
austenallred 13y ago
I lived in my car for three months this summer in Palo Alto as we were getting a startup off the ground, then when I headed back toward the Valley a few weeks ago for startup school I decided to relive it all again - from sleeping in my car to showering at the YMCA. On the drive over from Utah I stopped in Elko, Nevada to sleep for the night, and as I had before I found my "spot" in Palo Alto, I drove off into a less populous street, crawled in the back of my Civic and tried to look inconspicuous. This time, however, I woke up to a police officer shining a flashlight in my window. After I explained who I was and gave him my license to look me up, he said, "Really you should just go sleep in the walmart parking lot." Since I had to go to the bathroom anyway, I decided to do just that. It was after midnight when I pulled in, and there were probably a dozen cars and RVs in the darker section of the parking lot. Having lived in a car, it's pretty easy to notice the signs of someone who is set up for permanent residence as opposed to an overnight stay. I got out of there early in the morning, but I estimate 10 of the 12 cars in the Walmart parking lot in Elko, Nevada were occupied by permanent residents. Go to any parking lot (especially hospital parking lots) late at night and look for windshield covers on both the front and back windshields, curtains or rods for hanging clothes, ultra-portable bathrooms or cars full of clothes, and you'll realize the nomadic and/or homeless population is much larger than you previously supposed.
- throwmeaway2525 13y ago
  Walmarts and hospitals--I'm going to file this new information away, just in case (you never know where life will take you).
  - protomyth 13y ago
    Most Walmarts. For example, the Walmart in Williston ND had to chase everyone away because of all the problems they were having. Boom areas with housing shortages tend to have problems.
- recuter 13y ago
  I'm not from the US but I plan on doing a cross country adventure at some point. Let me ask you this; If my vehicle of choice was a delivery van of recent vintage with an artistic decal of a well known soda brand, would that help with avoiding such encounters? At worst I could claim to be an Andy Warhol fan, would that fly?
ExpiredLink 13y ago
> "We sold everything we have and decided to find, as we put it, our American dream," says Josiane Simpson. She, Jared Holfeltz, and their son Gabriel are currently living out of their car. The American dream is a delusion that makes people pursue wrong objectives.
- contextual 13y ago
  To achieve the American dream, you must be asleep. ~Lama Surya Das
- qq66 13y ago
  Notice that she said "our American dream," not "the American dream." She's not talking about a picket fence and a dog, she's talking about writing her own life's story.
- eli_gottlieb 13y ago
  I don't think it's the people living out of their car who're delusional.
busterzzz 13y ago
In picture three, that chick in the green shirt is pretty hot.
vincie 13y ago
I did much the same thing in Australia for nigh on 18 months. Good thing is, in the outback you can pull up pretty much anywhere, drive a little into the side of the road, watch the spectacular sunsets and go to sleep. Bad thing is, there are lots of brown snakes (deadly, but diurnal) and scorpions (very painful, nocturnal). In the big cities, I camped out near university campuses and truck stops for access to bathrooms etc. Most seaside towns have "surf livesaver" clubs with showers, sometimes with hot water. You could of course just swim in the ocean. I also fashioned a shower out of a hose that I would attach to the taps in public toilets if I was desperate for one. I miss that lifestyle.
dcposch 13y ago
In 2001/02, my family spent two years travelling around North America. All four of us lived in a bus-style Monaco RV. Instead of middle school, I was home-schooled by my mom. We drove as far north as Alaska and as far south as Belize and had adventures---it was a great time. I just wanted to say: Walmart deserves credit for being very cool toward travellers. We spent many nights parked for free in their truck spots. Walmart gets a lot of hate here in the bay area, but I really like them. If I may wax philosophical for a minute... I see Walmart as basic infrastructure. They are everywhere; they're always open; they sell everything, nearly at cost; they employ 2.2 million people, many of which would otherwise be on welfare or disability; and when you need a place to spend the night, even if you find yourself in Winnemucca at 1am with a 40-foot long vehicle and no RV park reservation--they're always there for you.
- rjbond3rd 13y ago
  > many of which would otherwise be on welfare I get what you're saying, but Walmart employment is (alas) very compatible with being a welfare recipient, and rather than preventing welfare, Walmart is actually subsidized by it (at least according to a recently popular theory).
  - protomyth 13y ago
    The local Walmart pays better than the local grocery store or any of the small businesses on main street. There is a reason that so many apply.
    - rsl7 13y ago
      better.. if they let you work full time.
      - protomyth 13y ago
        Given the new healthcare law, no main street business is going to have full-time workers other than relatives. 29 is going to be it.
    - 13y ago
clarebear 13y ago
Some people love to hate Walmart (and poor labor practices give good reason). However, providing a space to sleep and not get arrested is an example of something that is probably good for the nation's poor (as well as RV enthusiasts). Apparently Walmart is also one of the first places that half-way house parolees can get a pass to go. If Walmart is acting a portal for transitional people to rejoin or create there own (harmless) society, that is a tangible social good.
- aioprisan 13y ago
  I'm taking the cynical route here and think that it's more of a ploy to get even more customers into their stores. What does it take them to keep the lots open/secured? Is that more than the money they would get from those people who will have to get water, food and other supplies in the morning? Most definitely. Would it cost them to kick out people and possibly turn this into a negative media campaign? Absolutely.
  - mistermann 13y ago
    ploy noun 1. a cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's own advantage. cunning adjective 1. having or showing skill in achieving one's ends by deceit or evasion. Does Walmart have to be considered evil in literally every action? I'd fully expect they're hoping they will make some additional sales from overnight campers, I can't imagine this wouldn't be fairly obvious to any non-cynical observer of the situation. And why shouldn't they - they make a profit from regular non-camping customers, so I can't understand how making the same profit from people who just received a free place to camp out for the night could somehow be considered worse. Seems like a classic win-win situation to me.
    - aioprisan 13y ago
      Oh I wasn't saying that it's not a win-win situation, just that some of the comments were saying how Walmart was being generous and good, while a pretty simple benefit analysis tells us that Walmart is making real money off of this, which in the case of such a big player and their history as an employer, self-interest is the only driver that counts.
SteveGerencser 13y ago
My folks RV half the year. Walmart is their one night stopover destination of choice. There are books out there that tell you which Walmarts are best to stay at and the love it for quick grab some sleep before pushing nights. They make great rest stops too. Dad hops in back to get a nap while mom heads inside to do a little shopping or get some food at the deli counter.
marincounty 13y ago
I applaud Wallmart. They have been allowing this for awhile.
code_duck 13y ago
I've slept in Walmart parking lots more than a few times on my extensive road travels. There are few choices for brief naps out on the road, and while still somewhat dicey Walmart is safer than rest stops or random roadsides. If it's after 4 am, hotels won't even rent you a room (too close to checkout time, they say. And why can't they just let you check out at say, 6? Or a steady 15 hours after checkin?).
jmerton 13y ago
I'm an engineering tech (land development) who lost nearly everything in the crash. I "lived" (slept) in my truck, which has a custom cap made for the purpose, for four months this spring. It's not a cheap way to live. It takes fuel to get food, to take a morning dump, to go to a place to park for the night. If you're not somewhere you can cook, you're stuck with carry out. Still, it was an experience I in no way regret. I learned a lot about myself, which, for me, is a spiritual thing. (See other comment about "Sleeping the American Dream). Here are some tips: Pennsylvania numbered roads (PA & US) all have pull-over spots; I was never once harassed by the police in these places. The Potomac River, due to the National Park proximity, is absolutely to be avoided. Interstate rest stops are only good for one night at a time. There are also what I call "late in - early out" spots everywhere: bars with off-street parking, hotel lots, repair garages, state forests with hunters parking. A little imagination will give you other ideas. I've over-stayed my welcome with a friend (while I developed an idea that I could not seem to market successfully.) and will be back to daily pay ($42 a day) and sleeping in my truck for the winter. Its not really that bad. It can actually be an adventure at times; it all depends on your attitude.

74 points by kposehn 13y ago

This article doesn't seem to cover much but I'd be curious to know the implications of this. Is this very common? How long do people stay? Are these people making trips or living there? I've heard a lot about crime occurring in Walmart parking lots, does this have any effect?

VLM 13y ago
"I've heard a lot about crime occurring in Walmart parking lots, does this have any effect?" My parents RVed around the country when they semi-retired and occasionally got stuck at walmart (Reservations? Sir I am sorry but I have no record of you ever having made reservations... etc) Real criminals like empty lots and good numerical odds, so its extremely dangerous to be in a deserted shopping mall lot completely alone except for the crooks at 3am, or at a park all alone, or anything like that. Its not just walmart, some campgrounds are pretty sketchy during the empty work week. On the other hand trivial "crime" is much worse at walmart if by crime you mean "turned the radio up a little too loud at 8pm to cover sound of having sex" which might technically be a noise violation, but its not exactly armed carjacking or murder. RVers talk a lot to other RVers and from what I heard from my parents, the culture is very bovine, stay in the herd for safety. The more people in the lot sleeping, the safer the lot is by definition. You have to have serious guts, or be a police sting, to be the only vehicle in the lot. I would imagine the homeless are about the same. They want/need a good nights sleep and a screaming crime victim is not going to help them sleep, so there's more than a little self policing. There's ten guys here sleeping every night, and tonight there's one outsider checking door handles and prowling, well, there's going to be ten really pissed off guys if the interloper succeeds, so you do the math on what happens to the one interloper... There is also a lot of bias in that RV national park touring means visiting civilized rural areas not uncivilized urban areas. So that means a lot of hunters and concealed carry and an armed society is a polite society and all that stuff. So a rural Idaho walmart parking lot where 10% of the people carry is likely near infinitely safer than a Chicago walmart in the bad part of town where all the victims are disarmed. As such my parents experience visiting national and state parks may not be representative of urban ghetto walmart parking lots. The experience of a cow herd in the presence of wolves varies greatly if some random selection of the cows have razor sharp teeth and pointy horns vs a herd where everybody knows all the cows are completely defenseless so go have as much "fun" as you want.

austenallred 13y ago

I lived in my car for three months this summer in Palo Alto as we were getting a startup off the ground, then when I headed back toward the Valley a few weeks ago for startup school I decided to relive it all again - from sleeping in my car to showering at the YMCA. On the drive over from Utah I stopped in Elko, Nevada to sleep for the night, and as I had before I found my "spot" in Palo Alto, I drove off into a less populous street, crawled in the back of my Civic and tried to look inconspicuous. This time, however, I woke up to a police officer shining a flashlight in my window. After I explained who I was and gave him my license to look me up, he said, "Really you should just go sleep in the walmart parking lot." Since I had to go to the bathroom anyway, I decided to do just that. It was after midnight when I pulled in, and there were probably a dozen cars and RVs in the darker section of the parking lot. Having lived in a car, it's pretty easy to notice the signs of someone who is set up for permanent residence as opposed to an overnight stay. I got out of there early in the morning, but I estimate 10 of the 12 cars in the Walmart parking lot in Elko, Nevada were occupied by permanent residents. Go to any parking lot (especially hospital parking lots) late at night and look for windshield covers on both the front and back windshields, curtains or rods for hanging clothes, ultra-portable bathrooms or cars full of clothes, and you'll realize the nomadic and/or homeless population is much larger than you previously supposed.

throwmeaway2525 13y ago
Walmarts and hospitals--I'm going to file this new information away, just in case (you never know where life will take you).
- protomyth 13y ago
  Most Walmarts. For example, the Walmart in Williston ND had to chase everyone away because of all the problems they were having. Boom areas with housing shortages tend to have problems.
recuter 13y ago
I'm not from the US but I plan on doing a cross country adventure at some point. Let me ask you this; If my vehicle of choice was a delivery van of recent vintage with an artistic decal of a well known soda brand, would that help with avoiding such encounters? At worst I could claim to be an Andy Warhol fan, would that fly?

ExpiredLink 13y ago

> "We sold everything we have and decided to find, as we put it, our American dream," says Josiane Simpson. She, Jared Holfeltz, and their son Gabriel are currently living out of their car. The American dream is a delusion that makes people pursue wrong objectives.

contextual 13y ago
To achieve the American dream, you must be asleep. ~Lama Surya Das
qq66 13y ago
Notice that she said "our American dream," not "the American dream." She's not talking about a picket fence and a dog, she's talking about writing her own life's story.
eli_gottlieb 13y ago
I don't think it's the people living out of their car who're delusional.

busterzzz 13y ago

In picture three, that chick in the green shirt is pretty hot.

vincie 13y ago

I did much the same thing in Australia for nigh on 18 months. Good thing is, in the outback you can pull up pretty much anywhere, drive a little into the side of the road, watch the spectacular sunsets and go to sleep. Bad thing is, there are lots of brown snakes (deadly, but diurnal) and scorpions (very painful, nocturnal). In the big cities, I camped out near university campuses and truck stops for access to bathrooms etc. Most seaside towns have "surf livesaver" clubs with showers, sometimes with hot water. You could of course just swim in the ocean. I also fashioned a shower out of a hose that I would attach to the taps in public toilets if I was desperate for one. I miss that lifestyle.

dcposch 13y ago

In 2001/02, my family spent two years travelling around North America. All four of us lived in a bus-style Monaco RV. Instead of middle school, I was home-schooled by my mom. We drove as far north as Alaska and as far south as Belize and had adventures---it was a great time. I just wanted to say: Walmart deserves credit for being very cool toward travellers. We spent many nights parked for free in their truck spots. Walmart gets a lot of hate here in the bay area, but I really like them. If I may wax philosophical for a minute... I see Walmart as basic infrastructure. They are everywhere; they're always open; they sell everything, nearly at cost; they employ 2.2 million people, many of which would otherwise be on welfare or disability; and when you need a place to spend the night, even if you find yourself in Winnemucca at 1am with a 40-foot long vehicle and no RV park reservation--they're always there for you.

rjbond3rd 13y ago
> many of which would otherwise be on welfare I get what you're saying, but Walmart employment is (alas) very compatible with being a welfare recipient, and rather than preventing welfare, Walmart is actually subsidized by it (at least according to a recently popular theory).
- protomyth 13y ago
  The local Walmart pays better than the local grocery store or any of the small businesses on main street. There is a reason that so many apply.
  - rsl7 13y ago
    better.. if they let you work full time.
    - protomyth 13y ago
      Given the new healthcare law, no main street business is going to have full-time workers other than relatives. 29 is going to be it.
  - 13y ago

clarebear 13y ago

Some people love to hate Walmart (and poor labor practices give good reason). However, providing a space to sleep and not get arrested is an example of something that is probably good for the nation's poor (as well as RV enthusiasts). Apparently Walmart is also one of the first places that half-way house parolees can get a pass to go. If Walmart is acting a portal for transitional people to rejoin or create there own (harmless) society, that is a tangible social good.

aioprisan 13y ago
I'm taking the cynical route here and think that it's more of a ploy to get even more customers into their stores. What does it take them to keep the lots open/secured? Is that more than the money they would get from those people who will have to get water, food and other supplies in the morning? Most definitely. Would it cost them to kick out people and possibly turn this into a negative media campaign? Absolutely.
- mistermann 13y ago
  ploy noun 1. a cunning plan or action designed to turn a situation to one's own advantage. cunning adjective 1. having or showing skill in achieving one's ends by deceit or evasion. Does Walmart have to be considered evil in literally every action? I'd fully expect they're hoping they will make some additional sales from overnight campers, I can't imagine this wouldn't be fairly obvious to any non-cynical observer of the situation. And why shouldn't they - they make a profit from regular non-camping customers, so I can't understand how making the same profit from people who just received a free place to camp out for the night could somehow be considered worse. Seems like a classic win-win situation to me.
  - aioprisan 13y ago
    Oh I wasn't saying that it's not a win-win situation, just that some of the comments were saying how Walmart was being generous and good, while a pretty simple benefit analysis tells us that Walmart is making real money off of this, which in the case of such a big player and their history as an employer, self-interest is the only driver that counts.

SteveGerencser 13y ago

My folks RV half the year. Walmart is their one night stopover destination of choice. There are books out there that tell you which Walmarts are best to stay at and the love it for quick grab some sleep before pushing nights. They make great rest stops too. Dad hops in back to get a nap while mom heads inside to do a little shopping or get some food at the deli counter.

marincounty 13y ago

I applaud Wallmart. They have been allowing this for awhile.

code_duck 13y ago

I've slept in Walmart parking lots more than a few times on my extensive road travels. There are few choices for brief naps out on the road, and while still somewhat dicey Walmart is safer than rest stops or random roadsides. If it's after 4 am, hotels won't even rent you a room (too close to checkout time, they say. And why can't they just let you check out at say, 6? Or a steady 15 hours after checkin?).

jmerton 13y ago

I'm an engineering tech (land development) who lost nearly everything in the crash. I "lived" (slept) in my truck, which has a custom cap made for the purpose, for four months this spring. It's not a cheap way to live. It takes fuel to get food, to take a morning dump, to go to a place to park for the night. If you're not somewhere you can cook, you're stuck with carry out. Still, it was an experience I in no way regret. I learned a lot about myself, which, for me, is a spiritual thing. (See other comment about "Sleeping the American Dream). Here are some tips: Pennsylvania numbered roads (PA & US) all have pull-over spots; I was never once harassed by the police in these places. The Potomac River, due to the National Park proximity, is absolutely to be avoided. Interstate rest stops are only good for one night at a time. There are also what I call "late in - early out" spots everywhere: bars with off-street parking, hotel lots, repair garages, state forests with hunters parking. A little imagination will give you other ideas. I've over-stayed my welcome with a friend (while I developed an idea that I could not seem to market successfully.) and will be back to daily pay ($42 a day) and sleeping in my truck for the winter. Its not really that bad. It can actually be an adventure at times; it all depends on your attitude.