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The author forgot to mention: * Massive overpopulation, caused in part by over-aggressive family planning measures adopted by the same Indira Gandhi government

The author forgot to mention: * Massive overpopulation, caused in part by over-aggressive family planning measures adopted by the same Indira Gandhi government. There is extreme scarcity of basic resources like food, water, electricity in India. * Rampant Regionalism -- India is less like the USA (a collection of states) and more like the EU (a collection of countries with very distinct cultures). People find it hard to always have a strong sense of ties to the nation. Will, say, a Greek person feel sad about leaving "Europe"? Probably not. :P * A political system plagued with dynastic politics and ruled by old people (the average age of a Minister in India is 65) who still retain outmoded adherences to their own specific brand of religions / regions / castes / whatnot.

walshemj 13y ago
And if you look at sites like http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ there's a lot of employment practices in india that are almost pre Victorian in their harshness. I am not surprised that a lot of Indians want to move to the USA.
deleted 13y ago
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r0h1n 13y ago
> Massive overpopulation, caused in part by over-aggressive family planning measures Eh?? How does over-aggressive family planning lead to massive overpopulation? > Rampant Regionalism -- India is less like the USA (a collection of states) and more like the EU (a collection of countries with very distinct cultures). People find it hard to always have a strong sense of ties to the nation. Double eh?? Because India is a collection of distinct and heterogeneous states, unlike the homogeneous US, it suddenly becomes like the EU? > Will, say, a Greek person feel sad about leaving "Europe"? I don't know. But people don't emigrate because they're feeling sad or happy, but because they feel they may have better career prospects. > A political system plagued with dynastic politics and ruled by old people (the average age of a Minister in India is 65) who still retain outmoded adherences to their own specific brand of religions / regions / castes / whatnot. True, but pray how did you come to the conclusion that this was what caused people to emigrate? Fact is talented people emigrated from India because they found better value for their skills in the US. That's pretty simple. But if you're going to link Indian emigration to every ill that plagues India, from its political system to its "overpopulation" (which btw many others call a "demographic dividend") and "regionalism" (which others call "federalism"), then you'd better have some evidence or sources.
- parennoob 13y ago
  > How does over-aggressive family planning lead to massive overpopulation? Sorry, I forgot to say how. The over-aggressive family planning measures (including forced sterilization in a handful of cases) during the Emergency in India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India) led to Government family planning measures being widely distrusted in rural areas for the next few decades. This, combined with improved healthcare and low infant mortality, has led to roaring population growth. > Double eh?? Because India is a collection of distinct and heterogeneous states, unlike the homogeneous US, it suddenly becomes like the EU? Yes. India is much more like the EU than the US. This may put it into perspective, considering that a large number of HN readers come from the US/EU. It is an analogy, nothing more. > But people don't emigrate because they're feeling sad or happy, but because they feel they may have better career prospects. False dichotomy. People emigrate to improve happiness and quality of life. These are frequently related to better career prospects. India has pretty decent career prospects for software developers too. I would say just improved career prospects are not the whole reason for brain drain. > True, but pray how did you come to the conclusion that this was what caused people to emigrate? Personal experience (I am Indian, and have lived in several places in India and the US and am in a decent position to comment upon the quality of life), and the experiences of ~50-60 people I know fairly well who are in a similar situation. > Fact is talented people emigrated from India because they found better value for their skills in the US. That's pretty simple. This is true, but I think does not explain why, for example, there is not widespread immigration from, say, Canada to the US. I would say that people in Canada have a decent enough Government, and a lifestyle that is just comfortable enough to make moving to a new country not worth the pain. Of course, I could be totally mistaken about this, but it is just a view that you are free to disagree with. > But if you're going to link Indian emigration to every ill that plagues India, from its political system to its "overpopulation" (which btw many others call a "demographic dividend") and "regionalism" (which others call "federalism"), then you'd better have some evidence or sources. Perhaps as an émigré, I might be overzealous in ascribing all emigration to the ills that plague India. But calling overpopulation and regionalism something else does not exactly solve the problems arising from them. As for sources, I see you are a journalist for Forbes India and are probably able to access them much better than I can (although I am kinda surprised you did not seem to know about the stringent family planning measures during the Emergency, or maybe you just wanted me to elaborate).
sytelus 13y ago
No, these are not the "real" reasons. It's actually very simple and this applies to immigrants from many other countries such as Russia and Brazil as well which have same brain drain issue in development. If you were a software engineer or a scientist working in US, you are making same amount of money in 1 month that a person with exact same background would make in roughly 5 months. Think about this for a while. You are working in a office in India, your colleague accepts an offer for a job in US and tell you that he is going to get your entire annual income in just about 2 months while doing exact same job as you are doing. How much incentive would you still have to continue working in India?
- parennoob 13y ago
  A lot of costs are also about five-fold in the US, apart from things like gas (which can be explained by the fact that decent public transport is almost nonexistent here).

walshemj 13y ago

And if you look at sites like http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ http://workplace.stackexchange.com/ there's a lot of employment practices in india that are almost pre Victorian in their harshness. I am not surprised that a lot of Indians want to move to the USA.

deleted 13y ago

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r0h1n 13y ago

> Massive overpopulation, caused in part by over-aggressive family planning measures Eh?? How does over-aggressive family planning lead to massive overpopulation? > Rampant Regionalism -- India is less like the USA (a collection of states) and more like the EU (a collection of countries with very distinct cultures). People find it hard to always have a strong sense of ties to the nation. Double eh?? Because India is a collection of distinct and heterogeneous states, unlike the homogeneous US, it suddenly becomes like the EU? > Will, say, a Greek person feel sad about leaving "Europe"? I don't know. But people don't emigrate because they're feeling sad or happy, but because they feel they may have better career prospects. > A political system plagued with dynastic politics and ruled by old people (the average age of a Minister in India is 65) who still retain outmoded adherences to their own specific brand of religions / regions / castes / whatnot. True, but pray how did you come to the conclusion that this was what caused people to emigrate? Fact is talented people emigrated from India because they found better value for their skills in the US. That's pretty simple. But if you're going to link Indian emigration to every ill that plagues India, from its political system to its "overpopulation" (which btw many others call a "demographic dividend") and "regionalism" (which others call "federalism"), then you'd better have some evidence or sources.

parennoob 13y ago
> How does over-aggressive family planning lead to massive overpopulation? Sorry, I forgot to say how. The over-aggressive family planning measures (including forced sterilization in a handful of cases) during the Emergency in India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization#India) led to Government family planning measures being widely distrusted in rural areas for the next few decades. This, combined with improved healthcare and low infant mortality, has led to roaring population growth. > Double eh?? Because India is a collection of distinct and heterogeneous states, unlike the homogeneous US, it suddenly becomes like the EU? Yes. India is much more like the EU than the US. This may put it into perspective, considering that a large number of HN readers come from the US/EU. It is an analogy, nothing more. > But people don't emigrate because they're feeling sad or happy, but because they feel they may have better career prospects. False dichotomy. People emigrate to improve happiness and quality of life. These are frequently related to better career prospects. India has pretty decent career prospects for software developers too. I would say just improved career prospects are not the whole reason for brain drain. > True, but pray how did you come to the conclusion that this was what caused people to emigrate? Personal experience (I am Indian, and have lived in several places in India and the US and am in a decent position to comment upon the quality of life), and the experiences of ~50-60 people I know fairly well who are in a similar situation. > Fact is talented people emigrated from India because they found better value for their skills in the US. That's pretty simple. This is true, but I think does not explain why, for example, there is not widespread immigration from, say, Canada to the US. I would say that people in Canada have a decent enough Government, and a lifestyle that is just comfortable enough to make moving to a new country not worth the pain. Of course, I could be totally mistaken about this, but it is just a view that you are free to disagree with. > But if you're going to link Indian emigration to every ill that plagues India, from its political system to its "overpopulation" (which btw many others call a "demographic dividend") and "regionalism" (which others call "federalism"), then you'd better have some evidence or sources. Perhaps as an émigré, I might be overzealous in ascribing all emigration to the ills that plague India. But calling overpopulation and regionalism something else does not exactly solve the problems arising from them. As for sources, I see you are a journalist for Forbes India and are probably able to access them much better than I can (although I am kinda surprised you did not seem to know about the stringent family planning measures during the Emergency, or maybe you just wanted me to elaborate).

sytelus 13y ago

No, these are not the "real" reasons. It's actually very simple and this applies to immigrants from many other countries such as Russia and Brazil as well which have same brain drain issue in development. If you were a software engineer or a scientist working in US, you are making same amount of money in 1 month that a person with exact same background would make in roughly 5 months. Think about this for a while. You are working in a office in India, your colleague accepts an offer for a job in US and tell you that he is going to get your entire annual income in just about 2 months while doing exact same job as you are doing. How much incentive would you still have to continue working in India?

parennoob 13y ago
A lot of costs are also about five-fold in the US, apart from things like gas (which can be explained by the fact that decent public transport is almost nonexistent here).